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Will you purchase a MacPro?
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SOCOMRAIDER
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan__ wrote:
Lower Model:
Conroe E6300 - 1.86 GHz – FSB1066 – 2 MB cache - ($210) processor
512MB RAM
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
One open PCI-Express expansion slot
One open Optical drive slot [maybe] (i.e. for 2nd DVD drive)
Graphics Card with 128MB SDRAM
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0, USB/FW800
No keyboard/mouse/display........................................ $800

With an opening price of $800, it might take away some sales of the upper Mini, but probably not much from the lower one, especially for the folks that really appreciate the small form factor. The upper one might suffer a bit, but I really think they would cater to different crowds. The Mini can be plopped anywhere, even in your dashboard, and fits pretty nicely in home entertainment setups, or on top of your PC, or under your desk. You can stack 'em. You can slice and dice 'em. You can fry 'em up with onions. It won't die.

But this Mac would be a pretty attractive package to a lot of folks with a preference for performance. And fit their budgets.

Dan

I agree with you on everything, but the price. I'd also like to see more offered in the configurations. Basically the main selling point of Mac Pros would be the Xeon processors, the incredible FSB speed, the total amount of ram allowable, top-of-the-line cutting edge graphics, cutting edge Blu-ray/HD DVD drives and option of faster hard drives (like 10k RPM drives).

In any case, almost all Macs from now on should start with 1GB. I think we can all agree that majority of Macs aren't budget computers, not even the mid-level Mini. But you can keep the 512MB standard on entry level Mini or MacBook, only the entry level. Oh yeah and the educational iMac too.

I agree if you offer this "Mac" at $800 (which I agree that it's an attractive price point), it definitely will cut into top-of-the-line Mac Mini sales. Most people who are buying these top-of-the-line Mac Minis are using it for more than email, etc. They want the performance in a tower form. Mostly these people have not gotten a Mac Pro simply because of its price.
The main thing is, the Mini is more vulnerable than you may think. As most PC users are brainwashed to think Macs are junk. They even look at the Mini and see it more as of a joke. Cut too much into the top Mini sales, you cut into the overall Mini picture. Yeah it is a good switcher machine, but at the same time it's not. Most PC users will think you are not getting enough for the money.
And if you cut too much into the Mini sales, well then Apple might have to cut the Mini.
Thereby you have to price it accordingly to not cut too much into the Mini sales figures.

I know this "Mac" would carry a specific margin on it. Take case in point, the extra amount of money you must spend for the Black MacBook (basically pure margin), the amount you spend on the 2GB ram upgrade and just about every other Apple product out there.

Everything has a decent amount of profit on it. It's about the low-sales but high-margin, than the high-sales low-margin products (like Dell).
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Dan__
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
Dan__ wrote:
SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
Future Mac Pro processors? Or if not, potential upgrades?

They certainly seem destined for the Mac Pro and XServe. Hard to say if they'd work as an upgrade. From what I can tell, Intel is trying to make them socket compatible, but I don't know enough to be sure.

I would not expect them in the $700 Mac. :-)

That is why I said "Future Mac Pro" processors, not Mac.

I know you didn't. Sorry that my inflection didn't come through - I was trying to clarify my position - that I was kidding and wasn't looking for the whole boat in the fairly inexpensive model.
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Dan__
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
I agree with you on everything, but the price.

[...] if you offer this "Mac" at $800 (which I agree that it's an attractive price point), it definitely will cut into top-of-the-line Mac Mini sales. [...]
The main thing is, the Mini is more vulnerable than you may think.

Maybe I'm just not as concerned about cutting into the Mini line. For a few reasons.
  • There is so much enthusiasm surrounding the Mini that I don't think it would be killed.
  • I don't think most people enjoy loading up the Minis. Give the people what they want. They're happier that way. And the company and shareholders too.
  • I think this Mac would be such an attractive model that it would be a big win overall for Apple.

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
I'd also like to see more offered in the configurations.
[...]
In any case, almost all Macs from now on should start with 1GB. I think we can all agree that majority of Macs aren't budget computers, not even the mid-level Mini. But you can keep the 512MB standard on entry level Mini or MacBook, only the entry level. Oh yeah and the educational iMac too.

Ok. I think you mean "offered in the base configurations". I know 1GB is desirable, but I'm not sure it's necessary with a separate graphics card. But I'll concede that point.

So let's simplify things. (Though it's somewhat against my wishes because of price creep.) One model, with BTO options, including the processor. In the base model, include the greater RAM, the superdrive, mouse and keyboard, and well, if you must, throw another $39 profit in there. And, oh yeah, the remote. Here's what that looks like:
Quote:
Conroe E6300 - 1.86 GHz – FSB1066 – 2 MB cache - ($210)
1GB RAM
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
One open PCI-Express expansion slot
One open Optical drive slot [maybe] (i.e. for 2nd DVD drive)
Graphics Card with 128MB SDRAM
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0, USB/FW800
Remote [(?] I think this box will still be small enough to fit into home entertainment setups.]
Keyboard, Mighty Mouse...................................................... $999

Some Options:
Conroe E6600 - 2.40 GHz – FSB1066 – 4 MB cache – (+$100)
Wireless Keyboard/Mouse +$60
Add DVD/CD ROM drive (in 2nd slot) + $50
250GB SATA hard drive +$75
+1GB RAM (2GB total) +$100
+3GB RAM (4GB total) +$300
Slightly Better Graphics Card with 256MB SDRAM + $50
Much Better Graphics Card +$200+

How does that look?

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
Basically the main selling point of Mac Pros would be the Xeon processors, the incredible FSB speed, the total amount of ram allowable, top-of-the-line cutting edge graphics, cutting edge Blu-ray/HD DVD drives and option of faster hard drives (like 10k RPM drives).

Yes, and I'd like to think internal RAID solutions, as well.

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
Everything has a decent amount of profit on it. It's about the low-sales but high-margin, than the high-sales low-margin products (like Dell).

That is the Apple way.


Edited: Took out the display.


Last edited by Dan__ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SOCOMRAIDER
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan__ wrote:
Maybe I'm just not as concerned about cutting into the Mini line. For a few reasons.
  • There is so much enthusiasm surrounding the Mini that I don't think it would be killed.
  • I don't think most people enjoy loading up the Minis. Give the people what they want. They're happier that way. And the company and shareholders too.
  • I think this Mac would be such an attractive model that it would be a big win overall for Apple.

From a business stand point, if you only offer a small variety of product models. You want to have a buffer of price between base configurations. $1k may very well be a decent starting price, but of course it would be just the starting point leading up to a $2k BTO Mac.
Dan__ wrote:
SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
I'd also like to see more offered in the configurations.
[...]
In any case, almost all Macs from now on should start with 1GB. I think we can all agree that majority of Macs aren't budget computers, not even the mid-level Mini. But you can keep the 512MB standard on entry level Mini or MacBook, only the entry level. Oh yeah and the educational iMac too.

Ok. I think you mean "offered in the base configurations". I know 1GB is desirable, but I'm not sure it's necessary with a separate graphics card. But I'll concede that point.

More and more programs are starting to use more memory. Also it helps more to do simple multi-tasking. The reason for leaving the 512MB for baseline entry level Macs, would to make it as cheap as possible. To give the perception of a cheap Mac, even though any computer for $500 usually doesn't come with a lot to begin with.
What it comes down to, absolutely all Pro models should come with 1GB standard. Most of the standard (not bargin) PCs have moved away from the 512MB starting point. You can see most PCs having 1GB as their starting point. This not only leads to better performance, but lets you run more powerful, memory intensive programs.
Especially the current top-of-the-line PowerMac G5, it still comes stock 512MB! for $3k+. Absolutely no Pro unit should come stock with 512MB, even the starting MacBook Pro model. The top-level MacBook should come with 1GB also, not only because of the integrated gpu, but to more differentiate between low-mid and top-level MacBooks.
Dan__ wrote:
So let's simplify things. (Though it's somewhat against my wishes because of price creep.) One model, with BTO options, including the processor. In the base model, include the greater RAM, the superdrive, mouse and keyboard, and well, if you must, throw another $39 profit in there. And, oh yeah, the remote. Here's what that looks like:
Quote:
Conroe E6300 - 1.86 GHz – FSB1066 – 2 MB cache - ($210)
1GB RAM
160GB Serial ATA hard drive
Double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
One open PCI-Express expansion slot
One open Optical drive slot [maybe] (i.e. for 2nd DVD drive)
Graphics Card with 128MB SDRAM
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0, USB/FW800
Remote [(?] I think this box will still be small enough to fit into home entertainment setups.]
Keyboard, Mighty Mouse/display........................................ $999

Some Options:
Conroe E6600 - 2.40 GHz – FSB1066 – 4 MB cache – (+$100)
Wireless Keyboard/Mouse +$60
Add DVD/CD ROM drive (in 2nd slot) + $50
250GB SATA hard drive +$75
+1GB RAM (2GB total) +$100
+3GB RAM (4GB total) +$300
Slightly Better Graphics Card with 256MB SDRAM + $50
Much Better Graphics Card +$200+

How does that look?

Everything is fine, except I'd get rid of the FW800. There are far too few devices that use FW800, with most of them being a little expensive. Those are more geared to the professional user, as of now. The future may be different and can be included on future upgraded consumer desktops, but at a later time when more accessories are readily available.
I think you can pull a Mini like move and get rid of the keyboard and Mighty Mouse. Have that as an option when purchasing the computer. Simply because some people want different keyboards or mice. Someone may want the Apple keyboard but maybe a completely different mouse. Personally I am not really fond of the Mighty Mouse.

Did you accidently leave in the display part? Because an 20" Cinema is $800 itself.

....
On a separate thought. Apple should take some of the 17" widescreen displays used in the iMac, make an aluminum shell and sell them as 17" Cinema displays.
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Jet23
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all seem to be missing an important point. Sure, the Mac needs to keep as far away from the Mini as possible (regarding price), and I think that $999 is a really good starting price for that, but we're missing the simplest solution to keep the Mini out of the Mac market. Lower the price of the Mini. We all agree that it is overpriced anyway, and with Intel's reduction on Yonah chips, its technically feasible to bring the base unit back down to $500, and (maybe) bring the upper unit back to $600 (or at least $700). $700 (add $400 for "maximization") brings us to about $1100 for a maxed out unit. That isn't nearly as cannabalistic as $1200 (maxed Mini) compared to $800 (a potential Base Mac).
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet23 wrote:
You all seem to be missing an important point.


You make a good point. It's quite possible that Apple could do something like that. For now though Apple is just going to keep milking the mini for whatever they can get for it. Maybe the time to make a Mac is when people start losing interest in the mini at its current price.
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Dan__
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOCOMRAIDER wrote:
Did you accidently leave in the display part? Because an 20" Cinema is $800 itself.

Definitely an accident. I've edited the post to remove it.
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Dan__
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: The Core 2 Duo Reply with quote

And now for the ad...



[Edit: changed image source]
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks so cool!!!

That is exactly what I would like to see.
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Dan__
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
That looks so cool!!!

That is exactly what I would like to see.

Thanks. Glad you like it!
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SOCOMRAIDER
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: The Core 2 Duo Reply with quote

Dan__ wrote:
And now for the ad...



[Edit: changed image source]

I think it could be fine with only one drive. As most drives do it all these days, plus another defining feature for the Mac Pro.

It does look nice and with such height there can be quite a few connections on the back.

You should make picture of what the back/connections would look like.
There should be no less than 5 USB ports, 2 FireWire, maybe an eSATA and whatever else you can think of.
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247 Photography
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Will you purchase a MacPro? Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
What would Apple have to offer to inspire you to purchase a MacPro? ...


Speaking as one who bought his Power Mini in January, 2006, this seems like the right time to think about shopping for a G5 Power Mac.
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Will you purchase a MacPro? Reply with quote

247 Photography wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
What would Apple have to offer to inspire you to purchase a MacPro? ...


Speaking as one who bought his Power Mini in January, 2006, this seems like the right time to think about shopping for a G5 Power Mac.


I had to read that a couple of times to get your point.

I assume you are saying you like to purchase products at the end of their product life cycle.

I personally think that is a very smart way to do things. The product has been tried and tested. The bugs/issues have been resolved and the price is as low as it will ever get (if you are purchasing new).
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Will you purchase a MacPro? Reply with quote

247 Photography wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
What would Apple have to offer to inspire you to purchase a MacPro? ...


Speaking as one who bought his Power Mini in January, 2006, this seems like the right time to think about shopping for a G5 Power Mac.

Do I smell Quad-Core G5??? Shocked Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, Bandit Bill. How is the shopping in Edmonton, I hear that HUGE mall is crazy. Are they ever going to get some Apple love in that mall?
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