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Yosemite

 
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Smallwheels
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Yosemite Reply with quote

What are computers these days? My earliest recollection about Apple computers is the advertising they did on TV. They showed how amazing publishing could be using a Mac. The Mac was the platform for doing creative work. There really weren't a lot of games around way back then. The purpose for computers was work. If someone wanted to play they would buy an Amiga or TRS 80.

On today's presentation at WWDC 2014 I saw apps. I saw existing communication programs made different. Some of the features were improved. Some were similar to things others have created in the past. I didn't see much related to work. Searching for things on OS X is now a bit different. Sort of like Unity on Ubuntu has had for a while. E-mail changes remind me of Google Wave.

Many of these features don't really make using a computer easier or much faster. What I do see is a lot of features that will require much faster processors just to keep the thing functioning.

I know what I want in a computer. I want it to run fast enough so that I can use web sites without jittering screens while streaming videos. I want to be able to make a quality voice over IP call. I don't do CAD CAM stuff but I do create presentations with some graphics and I do word processing. It is rare, but sometimes I make movies and edit them, basic ones.

I'm not against progress. What I'm against is having my perfectly good machine made obsolete because vendors stop supporting it. My 2008 Mac Book still runs 10.5.8. Leopard is not supported by Apple anymore. Citrix won't support it. So I can't use GoToMeeting software anymore. Adobe isn't doing anything for me either. The machine is stuck on older versions of Firefox, Chrome, and Safari. ITunes doesn't even have streaming radio anymore for that version. They just stopped it.

My Mac Book still works. I can do word processing, create videos, make presentations, and use some specialized programs that integrate with some old peripheral hardware. The problem for me is I use the web for business and I'm not protected anymore when using Leopard.

I can't upgrade to Mavericks. My hardware isn't supported. There really aren't any things that the newer versions of OS X do that I need or want. Snow Leopard is as high as I can go with my machine.

What would I get with Yosemite? I would get an OS that requires a lot more horsepower that does nothing to make me more productive. It is full of convenience features so that one's phone can communicate with OS X and also be more like an iPhone.

So what are computers these days? To me they seem like... expensive toys that can do some work. I really don't care if I can access notes or make inputs on my calendar in a new way to save me a couple of mouse clicks. The extra graphics power all of this stuff requires is just expensive. This is how Apple earns its money. They sell hardware that must be more and more powerful to run the power intensive programs they promote. It is like a vicious cycle. They make it so we need more and more power so we'll buy newer machines. It is a logical way to do business. I just don't like it.

A few weeks ago I did an experiment. I removed lots of programs that weren't being used. All of my files were moved to an external drive. Would my machine run faster after doing this? It didn't run much faster. This means I can't really make what I have run faster by removing old programs. The corollary might be that loading more intense programs would make it run slower. That is a reason for not updating to a newer version of OS X.

Maybe I'm just becoming a curmudgeon. When I think of computers I think of them as things that should be doing work. OS X Yosemite is capable of doing work. It also seems like it will be capable of being an entertainment device more than a work device. Where are the improved programs for work? Without those there just doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to buy a newer machine. If I want another electronic toy I'll buy a tablet.

Are there any people here that feel the same way?
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mooblie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1, although I hate to admit it.

I used to be something of a Mac evangelist (in the 1980s and 90s) but not anymore. I feel, as you do, increasingly that Apple has reverted back to the "do things our way" or "just play in our universe" of the very early days. Not good.

And I absolutely agree that recent generations of OSX just seem to require more horsepower for eye-candy; nothing useful.

Put me down as a second curmudgeon!
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Bigbadbugga
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sort of agree, but... And it's a big but.

I changed to mac in 2007 after getting sick of replacing my windows desktop every 18 months and having to repeatedly re-install windows due to viruses and faulty hardware.

My MacBook has run flawlessly since early 2007 and is only now showing signs of being obsolete.

How many windows computers do you know of that are still running as well after 7 years?
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Smallwheels
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigbadbugga wrote:
I sort of agree, but... And it's a big but.

I changed to mac in 2007 after getting sick of replacing my windows desktop every 18 months and having to repeatedly re-install windows due to viruses and faulty hardware.

My MacBook has run flawlessly since early 2007 and is only now showing signs of being obsolete.

How many windows computers do you know of that are still running as well after 7 years?
My 2008 Mac Book has frozen about thirteen times in all of the years I've owned it. It hasn't gotten a virus. It still works but started getting slow in 2012. That is when I cleared the hard drive to see how much faster it would run.

Vista was my last OS from Microsux. By the time I bought it most of the driver problems had been worked out. The first month it seemed OK. By the end of that first month of usage the bugginess of it was getting on my nerves. From then on it became a spare for doing things on sites that would only work with IE. In 2013 Vista crashed for the last time and I removed it from the machine forever.

A friend of mine has a Windoz 7 laptop. She was complaining that the internet was too slow. She was comparing it to her experience with her much older desktop of years ago. The problem wasn't that the internet was slower. It was that web sites now have so much data in them that the sites just take a longer time to load. This is eye candy too. Her 1998 desktop with XP runs fine but is slow.

Apple's OS X definitely runs better than other OSs. I just wish they would continue security updates and functionality updates the way Microsux did for XP. They maintained that one for a long time. 10.5 was done for within three years. Since Apple made the hardware it should be very easy for them to maintain over more years. They just don't do it. They force people to get new machines when the old ones still work fine. Even free versions of Ubuntu offer long term support for five years.

The last functional update to a program I use was when they added image stabilization to iMovie. That was a technological improvement. That wasn't about making the controls easier to access in a new way. Image stabilization actually did something for me.

Adding an Ubuntu dash-like feature to Spotlight, drop down menus, desktop access to the new Mac App Store, transparent menus, scrolling menus, left or right scrolling using a touch pad, and moving files to and from a phone are all things that just give users fewer mouse clicks than before.

Mountain Lion made Garage Band a little better. I don't use that one. Where are the huge improvements for iWork? The last big improvement to that suite was in 2009.
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think OS X has went downhill since the introduction Lion and iCloud. I understand where Apple is heading, but it's been a bumpy road getting there.

What happened to simplicity? Does the computer really need to be doing 100's of things every second while we're doing nothing. Pretty soon we are going to start seeing beach balls appear on the screen without even clicking the mouse button.
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Smithcraft
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'll be the guy waving his arms yelling for junk to get off of my CPU!

SC
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like and I welcome change, but it comes with a price. Every time you add new features you take away from simplicity.

Why does my computer ring every time I get a phone call !!! Make it stop.

Apple will be sooooo far ahead of the competition by building an ecosystem but it's still in it's infancy.

Where I'd like to see Apple focus a bit more attention is simplifying iCloud and Apple IDs for families. This is an ongoing issue. I don't think anything was said about this in the keynote. I think there was a snippet of something regarding purchases if somebody wants to refresh my memory.
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macmanmacman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for this..

Honestly there are ways to install other operating systems on a macintosh theres sixty four on thirty two which allows mountain lion and mavericks on unsupported macintoshes all though very successful with mac pro's 1.1 2.1 and mac mini's 2.1 its unknown how many other machines it will run on it's sad that apple decided to remove so many products by using a rigged boot efi and supported plist garbage in there os there are back doors that i find funny as heck.

Let me explain:

1. Mac Os X Leopard all though no longer supported has the pacifist hack where you can install the latest flash player on leopard using the flash player for 10.6 all you do is place the flash player.pkg from inside the adobe installer and install it into the default locations using pacifist.

why this works because snow leopard and leopard run safari 5.0 so any safari 5.0 plugin works on any version of safari 5.0 duh!!!

It's lame things like this which is making people angry at apple
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DonCarlos
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
sixty four on thirty two which allows mountain lion and mavericks on unsupported macintoshes all though very successful with mac pro's 1.1 2.1 and mac mini's 2.1


It's true you can install OSX 10.9.5 on unsupported machines, but it is more a curiosity than a true functional upgrade. Kudos to such savvy individuals for figuring out a way of doing it.

I have an external with Mavericks installed, but aside from saying "Look what I have installed on here, running through a 2007 mini", it is of little use since:

1) WiFi is gone
2) No audio, period
3) iMessaging (a cool feature) is not functioning
4) Safari is shaky at best.
5) Video, such as youtube, does not work on Safari (but Chrome it does, and Chrome seems the more stable browser for sure)

If you want to fully use the newest versions of OSX then you just really need to get a newer machine.

I am completely happy with running Lion, until it becomes truly necessary to get a new machine.
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MJL
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Yosemite Reply with quote

Smallwheels wrote:
What are computers these days? My earliest recollection ......


MY earliest recollection was being at varsity and the varsity being given an analog computer, it used punchcards. A year later they bought a digital computer.....

I sidestepped computers and returned to computers 12 years later, initially a TRS 80 and later a Commodore 64. At work we were only one compile (Cobol) allowed at lunchtime and the program had to be debugged in two compiles, the third compile was to put it in production. At the time I was working on the second largest installation in Europe (largest was at CERN for the accelerator). Nowadays the mac mini has more power than that beast. I remember being manager at a polytechnic and running two classrooms with SCO Unix, one classroom teaching Oracle form, the other teaching UNIX. The machine had.... 1 (one) 486DX75 processor with 24 Mb (yea Mega !) of memory and two 300 Mb SCSI HDD. And that had close to 100 students attached...... I remember an IBM 286 PC costing as much as a small car. I remember a "luggable" Compaq computer costing as much as a new mid sized car (two thirds of a year salary for a manager). And here people are complaining about the price of the new Mac mini that is far more grunty and far more reliable?

I build some of the largest databases with large mainframes with Oracle and still shake my head at the pathetic performance. My Mac mini is doing over 2 Billion database transactions per hour, but that is unheard off, surely cannot be possible? Yes it can but it depends on how it is being programmed.

My daughter has a 9 year old IBM laptop, still running XP, still humming along nicely except for the forced down your throat video content on the web. My mac minis are running Windows 8.1, it will be supported until January-10-2023. Have not had a crash since XP SP 2 but I am carefull with browsing and what I load up. IBM laptops were over engineered, had other brands but they never lasted, always some issues with drivers / instability / things failing.

People hope that the next mini will be better, I am afraid that the next mac mini will come with an ARM CPU, if there is a next mac mini. The younger generation is only interested in mobile gear and social networking. But they cannot compile a decent essay, cannot write a decent letter and cannot give you the change on a purchase in a shop without a calculator. Cannot even count out the money that they have to give back. They are dumbing down, analytical skills are rapidly disappearing.

The mac mini is silent, the best thing I ever did was putting a SSD inside. It is the best windows machine, it has been the easiest to install. No driver conflicts. The 2012 is capable of running Windows 8.1 in UEFI mode, boots in about 17 seconds.

I never liked the quad cores, when fully utilised they run too hot. Similarly the 2010 mid model with discrete GPU, could almost bake an egg on them. Out the door it went: too much heat and then reliability and longevity go out the window. I like the 2014 model: memory soldered down, cannot work loose and no issues with contact potential. Drive connectors screwed down: cannot work loose, especially after a few drive changes have been done those connectors are fragile. Hums along with a TDP of 28 Watts

Better shielding so the USB 3 does not interfere with Bluetooth. Two 27" monitors, enough screen estate.

And the "experts" are lamenting the quad and removable RAM disappearance, I think "good riddance", I hate stuff with a limited life expectancy with a vengance.
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