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Aurora movie shootings

 
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devo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Aurora movie shootings Reply with quote

It's such a sad and horrific thing. So... Is anyone else more passionate about a ban on assault rifles now? I sure am. Those dang guns serve no purpose other than throwing out a ton of bullets to kill people. There is nothing really sporting about them in my book. I think those types of weapons should be reserved for law enforcement and the military. That's it.
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Smithcraft
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not. I'll also say that I fully respect your argument.

Not to make slight of the tragedy that occurred in Aurora, but those people were killed by a sick man who used a tool.

If you want to ban tools that can be used for violence, then any thing can be banned.

You have stabbing victims every day, but you can still buy a steak knife without any issues. A guy walked in to a school in China a couple of years ago with a meat cleaver. I think he killed 15 kids. Knives are only used for cutting up meat, and nothing else.

If one was of a mind to, one could kill someone with a pencil.

While I don't see more than one use for assault rifles, banning them for only having one use doesn't make them disappear. It might be an old, and maybe even silly, argument but if you make it illegal to buy a gun only the law abiding citizens will be unarmed, while criminals will still have access to whatever they want/need.

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devo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with many of your points SC. Especially the last part about criminals getting their hands on them anyways. That being said, I still think a ban needs to be implemented for certain guns with higher capacity magazines (why make it easy for them?). I don't think you can compare an AR-15 (think that was the gun he used) with a knife or a pencil. It would be hard (even though you mention the guy in China) going into a theater and killing 12 and wounding so many with either or those objects. The AR-15 is basically a weapon of mass destruction. It's purpose is for throwing out a bunch of bullets fast to kill. It's the perfect weapon for this type of crime. I realize that it doesn't pull the trigger by itself though. So maybe we need some sort of psychological testing to go along with buying these guns? Then again, that could be fooled. And history sort of shows that anyone can snap. There would also be liability for those doing the testing. So... I don't see anyone signing off on the one. Oh well, I just don't like these assault rifles being out there. I just don't think it's a good idea for public safety.
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Smithcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing devils advocate here, but a shotgun would have given him more kills and injuries with fewer rounds. We are talking about what should have been a packed theater. With every seat full, a sawed off 12 gauge would have had a high dispersal and if he is walking down the isles then he is just about point blank. So ban shot guns also?

With a packed house, a revolver would have had a target for every bullet, and a speed loader would have made for quick reloads.

Why would it be difficult to severely wound 15 people with a cleaver if a plane full of people submitted to box cutters?

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ez061111
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggest difference is with a revolver or shotgun he potentially would have only killed a few people. Distance and accuracy with a shotgun, particularly with a sawed of shotgun, would have been decreased. Revolver depending on barrel length also would have very poor accuracy and the untrained as it appears he was can be netorious at missing the side of a barn with a pistol.

5-6 shots max with long reload times for both, even with a speed loader would have potentially given people ample time to close on him. Quite different from 100 round AR-15 clips that he had that also take a fraction of the reload time. The .40 Glock clips are also probably 3 times larger, some reaching close to 30 rounds and are quicker reloads than a revolver.

30-100 round clips are only designed to kill the most dangerous game, humans.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel bans will do nothing to prevent anything like this from happening, the last AWB was in place when Columbine occured, but people like to ignore that it did nothing to prevent that. Also the media is full of idiots, an assault weapon MUST be capable of AUTOMATIC FIRE to be an assault weapon under the FEDERAL DEFFINITION, not the bullshit definition made by liberals in congress, the one used by the BATFE who regulates firearms. Otherwise I've used weapons similar to the ones in this shooting for hunting deer, squirrel, and hogs and have had one fixed on a human target a time or two. I've walked down the road and around town with a gun on my hip and have yet to see how it it a bad thing, it has only done two things made some people get scared and kept me from being attacked by a few drunks. Now if this man had some real foresight he would have shot the place up, made people run outside then go have a run around the parking lot with his car, would have really helped him get that body count up there.

As far as some guns being meant for killing people, I have some guns with no hunting intentions because I've needed to hunt for humans. Civillian possession of firearms is not limited to those with "sporting purpose" because we are not granted the right to only keep sporting guns but any firearm. There is nothing saying it can't be taxed, licensed, or refused by authority to the point of being impossible as has been done in DC where guns are impossible to keep stored legally and have at the ready for home defence and is also one of the worst places for crime in the country.
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scooper
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guns and groups like the NRA scare me. It seems like they will go to any extreme to protect the 2nd Amendment. Even if that might mean killing or looking the other way. And don't even get me started about Ted Nugent. Laughing
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devo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithcraft wrote:
Why would it be difficult to severely wound 15 people with a cleaver if a plane full of people submitted to box cutters?

It's not, but they were in a more confined space without an escape route.

I hear you though SC. Your argument is respectful and well thought out. I just think a line needs to be drawn somewhere. I'm not for the banning of all guns.

ez061111 wrote:
30-100 round clips are only designed to kill the most dangerous game, humans.

That sounds like a line out of a movie. Laughing

We are so capable of such evil things though. It's kinda scary to even think about.
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epic_ed
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how Fox News does a big story on "should we ban people wearing masks in a theater", but say that it's premature and disrespectful to talk about banning assault rifles. Isn't that a little ironic, don't you think?
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dungeon92
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

epic_ed wrote:
I like how Fox News does a big story on "should we ban people wearing masks in a theater", but say that it's premature and disrespectful to talk about banning assault rifles. Isn't that a little ironic, don't you think?


It's stupid to jump on the gun ban bandwagon immediately as well, if anyone wants to pass legislation they shouldn't EVER do it as an immediate response to a "tragedy" doing so leads to people making decisions they later regret. Anyone remember the Patriot Act and how willingly people accepted it as a good thing and now more and more people look at it thinking it's a massive mistake. Look at how willingly people let the TSA introduce stricter procedures and now we have people going nude in airports out of protest and the TSA is somehow becoming more and more like a law enforcement agency rather than a simple security agency. Both of those were because a terrorist attack by foreigners and yet the vast majority of terrorists come from inside our borders and somehow our watch lists and no-fly lists include children.
If you want to call for a gun ban fine, but don't do it because some guy shot some people, do it because you have good, factual data showing it will solve the issue and if you can't find good solid data supporting one then reconsider the practicality of a gun ban. Some of the most dangerous cities have some of the most severe gun control, people who lawfully carry concealed weapons have almost never been involved in a non-justifiable homicide, and people who own 100 round magazines and AR-15's have only been known to be involved in shootings almost never, I can only think of two in the last 15 years. The last Assault Weapons Ban is almost impossible to measure its actual affect on crime since it was considered to simply be too small to say the ban was the only or primary reason for the change.
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ghostdawg
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your argument is respectful and well thought out. I just think a line needs to be drawn somewhere. I'm not for the banning of all guns.

I agree, we need to give a little to get a little.
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