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Steve Jobs Posts Thoughts on Flash
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Steve Jobs Posts Thoughts on Flash Reply with quote

Steve Jobs Posts Thoughts on Flash
Thursday, April 29, 2010
Posted by: Brian

Steve Jobs posted an open letter earlier today in an attempt to clarify Apple's stance on Flash. He argues six points against the technology, which you can read below, and explains why Apple has chosen not to allow Flash on devices like the iPhone and iPad. He ends by saying that Flash was developed during the era of PCs and mice, and that today's low-power, touch-based mobile devices require new standards and technologies. Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen has since responded to the letter in an interview, with the Wall Street Journal, basically taking on each point. He ends by saying that customers should have the ultimate voice in the dispute and believes that multi-platform solutions like those offered by Adobe will prevail in the end.

Okay, so whose side are you coming down on?



http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/1507.html
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theGimpiest
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with Jobs about flash. It has severe memory leaks and is unstable. Likewise, Apple would be at Adobe's mercy for flash updates to correct bugs rather than being able to correct issues themselves. With Adobe's track record of fixing flash, Apple did the right thing on giving it up.
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TonyMontana
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flash.....who needs it, I have been flash free on my iPhone for two years and haven't missed it at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTML5 is probably the future, but I still feel like we should have a choice. I would love to have Flash on the iPhone. I also got a chuckle out of hearing Steve Jobs talk about proprietary products. Talk about a double standard. 90% or more of what Apple does is proprietary. The guy from Adobe just knows he is done. Fighting the Apple Borg right now is hopeless. Just ask every other Zunish tech company out there. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love that picture TonyMontana!

I can understand some of the reasons for going on without Flash, but I would still like to have the option. I also wouldn't mind having the option to playback Blu-ray discs on my Mac while we are at it. Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Jobs position on this. Apple has waited for years for Adobe to get its act together but they clearly have not felt the Apple platform was worth putting any money into. Now they are whining about being shut out by Jobs. Adobe is talking out of both sides of their mouths. They could have prevented this confrontation if they had put the kind of energy into the Mac platform that Jobs talk about but they didn't. And Apple can't wait forever, so Jobs is pushing the market to by-pass Flash. And they might succeed if the iPad is as successful as the iPhone. Companies go where the money (and the customers) are. If they are all on Apple products, they will dump Flash for newer technology.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think we'll all wake up one morning and hear that Apple has bought out Adobe. Then Flash will be touted as then greatest thing on the face of the earth. This is just a way to talk down their stock price in the meantime. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't really about flash. Flash is dying, unless it can come up with something new and compelling HTML5 will take over. It might be a long and slow death, but it is going to happen eventually.

This is really about Adobe's flash content creation tools. Its my understanding they are the best out there and pretty well the only ones that have a work flow that favours graphics artists rather than developers (programmers). Adobe is changing those tools to target other platforms besides flash, ie HTML5. But they were also targeting iphone apps. The real issue here is Apple licensing that targeting of the iphone out of the picture. So you can't build something in flash and end up with an iphone app too.

If Apple can make the argument about Flash itself, the issue of using content creation tools to build iphone apps goes under the radar.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

Steve Jobs
April, 2010



I am not knocking the above pulled from his letter but I still don't see this as the mobile era. How can it be when the new iPad that came out today costs 829 you have to get a case 870. you need a camera so it is more then 1k and it is not powerful enough.


I will say this it may be the dawn of a new era but in terms of it really being a new era it isn't. An Ipad has a tiny screen and poor sound compared to a HT. So while playing a game is cool it is not a good TV or movie experience. If it comes with wireless 3d eyeglasses you could get a good picture but you won't be very mobile with the glasses on.. Other then that I pretty much come down on his side.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like MS IE9 team is going h264 only, so Flashes days might be numbered.

However, I found Jobs letter/release to be a bunch of double talk. Mostly the pot calling the kettle black. OS X might be based on an open OS, and OS X might include plenty of open components, but the way Apple manages those parts and the total domination of the ecosystem is contrary to what Jobs wrote.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithcraft wrote:
However, I found Jobs letter/release to be a bunch of double talk. Mostly the pot calling the kettle black. OS X might be based on an open OS, and OS X might include plenty of open components, but the way Apple manages those parts and the total domination of the ecosystem is contrary to what Jobs wrote.

Not so. His point is that he prefers to incorporate open source components into the OS, because they are easier to maintain. By using only open source and Apple proprietary components, he doesn't have to wait for a third-party to make fixes for new system versions and bugs -- he can do them himself. So if Flash was used and an update was needed, we'd need to wait around for a fix from Adobe and Apple would be stuck.
He's not knocking Adobe for making flash proprietary. He's simply stating why he doesn't want to use third-party proprietary components.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integration of open components are easier to maintain... Hmm, well since Apple has failed to maintain many of the components in the OS, I guess ignoring updates is an easy way to maintain something.

Anyway, how about the App store? What about when they claim that you can't have your app be cross compiled, but yet still allow other cross compiled apps?

Apple isn't about being open, it's about being closed. Just because Jobs posts some thoughts that are pure PR, doesn't mean that twenty years of the way that Apple has done business have suddenly disappeared or changed.

But I guess by not using third party proprietary components, as opposed to Apple proprietary components, Apple is better off? I still don't see that as a valid defense against a PR memo. To say that you have to wait for a third party to fix something is in any way different from waiting for Apple to fix something?

What about when Apple runs their own proprietary version of a third party resource? Just like Java? Java gets updated, and then when is Apple going to release the updated version of Apple Java? Oh, when they feel like it, I guess.

Jobs made a choice, and this choice is not consistent with other choices that he has made for Apple, and now he has put up a bit of PR to justify his reasoning. However, to me, not allowing your customers to choose what they want on their equipment is not really the best way to run things. Then again, it's not my company.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're ranting. Take a step back and be objective.

Apple proprietary components - updates on Apple's schedule.
Open source components - updates on Apple's schedule.
Adobe Proprietary components - updates on ADOBE's schedule.

Do you see the pattern. Apple wants better control to give you the best experience their design team can give you at that point in time. They don't want to have to rely on components outside of their control.

Apple is closed because they are running a business and have patents. Is this wrong of them? Of course not. Is it hypocritical to want to use only their stuff and open source stuff and not rely on other companies? Of course not. Why do you think they are using their own processors in the iPad? This way they don't have to rely on AMD or Intel and get it done on their own schedule.

I fail to see why you can't grasp this. It is a manufacturing decision to provide the best experience possible for end-users. The iPad is not an open device and not intended to be one. It is a consumer electronics device. What was the last consumer electronics device that you've seen that was open?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree with SC for the most part, but theGimpiest brings up a couple good points. I'll just say this. If you don't think Flash is that important, try going to the Rolling Rock site on your iPhone without it. Laughing Wink
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but what is it that I don't grasp? Rolling Eyes

Perhaps I am ranting, but blindly following what ever Jobs says, is foolish.

How is not giving customers a choice, giving them the best experience? Especially when preventing that choice limits where and what customers can do and use?

Apple has been caught in a lie with their cross compile requirements.

Apple has failed to keep the components of BSD up to date, and fails to update them even after several years. How does running obsolete components provide for the best experience for the user?

I fail to see why you can't grasp that the customer should be able to decide what they want and what they don't want. Nobody is saying that Apple has to certify Flash or any Flash app for the iP devices. After all they don't actually certify the majority of applications sold in the App store.

So why can't a customer install a plug in that provides them with a greater freedom for their iP device experience?

With all the myriad things that I fail to grasp, I still can't understand how allowing Flash on the iP devices has anything to do with Apple's own update schedule...

SC
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