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Who's tried Windows 7?
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
Quite why a 12-year-old can't get his/her schoolwork done with apps that are 1 or 2 years old is beyond me...


I'd call it the iPhone effect. It's not that they don't know how to use 2 years old apps; its just that the 2 year old apps are so ancient & uncool. Laughing

JohnnyBoy wrote:
..the schools were probably bullied into paying up.


Yep...Bill Gates was a school boy bully... Runs in the family aka Ballmer (frankenstein)

JohnnyBoy wrote:
Quite why a 12-year-old can't get his/her schoolwork done with apps that are 1 or 2 years old is beyond me, but the schools were probably bullied into paying up.

Thankfully, the tide is now turning. The University of Westminster is switching from MS apps to Google apps, saving the institution about £1 million/year. And the Daily Telegraph (London newspaper) has done the same thing.


Equally good news, Google has been the financier behind Photoshop on Linux (wine) : while whole nations government instrumentalities are moving over to Linux. aka Brazil, Israel etc.

Aqua
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon Brown counts Bill Gates as a close personal friend. Bill probably finds him intolerable, but hey, being in a position to whisper your "un-biased" computer purchasing advice into a PM's ear is good for business. Wink

Meanwhile, one of the ideas that the UK's main opposition party has been mulling over in order to save the taxpayer lots of cash is.... using open source software in all government departments! Shocked Poor Bill! Cool
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
Gordon Brown counts Bill Gates as a close personal friend. Bill probably finds him intolerable, but hey, being in a position to whisper your "un-biased" computer purchasing advice into a PM's ear is good for business. Wink


In which case, Steve Jobs should be bending Al Gores' ear, to get him to speak to President Obama, to get Macs in every government department in America.

Quid Pro Quo..... Wink

Aqua
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DeeLondon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:

In my books, they (Miscrosoft) should have started from scratch.

Like Apple who transitioned from OS-9 to OS-X, they should have taken courage to hand and built Windows 7 on a Unix core; then given it away to all the suffering Vista users.

Ah but then why should I be encouraging the opposition with such eminently sensible ideas.. Wink

Aqua


One hing you've failed to point out is Apple make the Hardware as well as the software and the amount of hardware they have on offer is very limited compared to the millions of possible combination of hardware you have with PC's

Apple's job of creating a new OS is a lot simpler then Microsoft's.
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeeLondon wrote:
Aquafire wrote:

In my books, they (Miscrosoft) should have started from scratch.

Like Apple who transitioned from OS-9 to OS-X, they should have taken courage to hand and built Windows 7 on a Unix core; then given it away to all the suffering Vista users.

Ah but then why should I be encouraging the opposition with such eminently sensible ideas.. Wink

Aqua


One hing you've failed to point out is Apple make the Hardware as well as the software and the amount of hardware they have on offer is very limited compared to the millions of possible combination of hardware you have with PC's

Apple's job of creating a new OS is a lot simpler then Microsoft's.


It's not like M$ makes sure that their new operating systems work with 100% of all old hardware. Does M$ even write drivers? Isn't it up to the hardware manufacturers to have their drivers written and submitted to M$ prior to the OS release.

M$ has the ability to start from scratch just like Apple. Difficulty isn't the issue, it's dollars. Apple had to take a short term loss in profit to transition from OS 9 to OS X. The question is, will M$ ever do the same?
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MacMini87
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow guys! I didn't expect this much response from my post!

You've all made for interesting reading though, for sure

Dan
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeeLondon wrote:

One thing you've failed to point out is Apple make the Hardware as well as the software and the amount of hardware they have on offer is very limited compared to the millions of possible combination of hardware you have with PC's

Apple's job of creating a new OS is a lot simpler then Microsoft's.


Actually as I stated before, MS could have, in fact should have followed Apple's lead by rewriting their operating system from scratch.

This would have made it easier, not harder to control the value of their product.

From a purely commercial perspective, Microsofts' computer business model was superior to Apples in the short term, but over the longer term, Apples model has turned a far greater profit for each dollar invested into design and software.

And that's not the end of the story.

The sheer weight of poorly written drivers, as well as poorly written software for Pc's running Windows, has been a bane & curse. In turn, that has crippled MS's profitability. Now everything hinges on the uptake of Windows 7. And the jury will be out on this for sometime to come yet.

In a nutshell, Microsoft ultimately represents "Quantity" : while Apple represents "Quality".

As the olde adage goes : 'You gets what you pays for'.

Aqua
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MacDSmith2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
M$ has the ability to start from scratch just like Apple. Difficulty isn't the issue, it's dollars. Apple had to take a short term loss in profit to transition from OS 9 to OS X. The question is, will M$ ever do the same?


Yeah, it's called giving Steve Jobs $400 Million dollars for Next so Apple could use his BSD Unix based OS as the foundation for creating OS/X. Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't have a Steve Jobs waiting around with a ready made OS tailored to their needs! And they are trapped by their legacy. Look at the fiasco they have created moving from XP to Windows 7, having to re-install your apps and stuff.
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The danger for Apple is that Microsoft have actually got Windows 7 right.

While Vista was being cursed by everyone (including PC manufacturers and journalists loyal to MS), Apple could gain market share at Microsoft's expense. But this looooooong beta testing phase reminds me of the effort that MS put in to DOS 5 after DOS 4.01 had been such a damp squib. MS learned a lesson about customer expectation and made sure that the next version made everyone smile.

It looks to me as though history is repeating itself; Microsoft seems to have acknowledged they can't just count on making millions by peddling crap -- and now, they've done something about it. Hell, even Mac users are saying nice things about Win 7.

So, if Win 7 is fast, looks good, works smoothly, and is stable and reliable..... how do Apple stay ahead??? Shocked
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
It looks to me as though history is repeating itself; Microsoft seems to have acknowledged they can't just count on making millions by peddling crap -- and now, they've done something about it.


I'm not so sure that M$ considered Vista as crap. Perhaps they bit of more than they could chew with Vista. My understanding is that Vista's new features didn't play well with XP (software and hardware). This is the underlying reason for Windows 7 Premium have Windows XP emulation. This allows M$ to move ahead ie. implement the features Vista wanted to introduce (along with others), while still maintaining XP support. Great move on MicroSoft's part. Eventually the majority of people will migrate to Windows 7 and the support for XP will be less valued. Eventually they will be able to phase it out, just like they did with Windows 95/98 etc.

I never really though Windows was crap. I'm not a huge fan, but if you run hardware and software that deigned for the OS. There typically aren't huge issue. Windows requires a lot more maintenance, but so do muscle cars. With flexibility comes issues.
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
The danger for Apple is that Microsoft have actually got Windows 7 right.

It looks to me as though history is repeating itself; Microsoft seems to have acknowledged they can't just count on making millions by peddling crap -- and now, they've done something about it. Hell, even Mac users are saying nice things about Win 7.

So, if Win 7 is fast, looks good, works smoothly, and is stable and reliable..... how do Apple stay ahead??? Shocked


JB,

What you haven't taken into account is the way Microsoft has treated its current XP users. While Vista users get to use the easy upgrade path with all their personal files, software installations, drivers & settings remaining intact; this is not so for XP users.

For XP users, the only option is to buy a full price retail edition of Windows 7. If that isn't bad enough (given the massive price disparity) they (XP users) have to decide between doing a complete install either via a separate partition on their HDD's or remotely transferring all their computer settings, drivers, software installs & personal files to a remote location. Then, the same XP users have to reinstall all the above back to their current drives or choose a separate drive to keep those files alive.

For most XP users this will mean at least a day of downing tools or stopping their business in their tracks.

Clearly someone at MS has not thought this entire business through, since XP users are still by far the biggest portion of their ongoing customer base. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I'd have thought that MS was deliberately punishing its XP users, for having refused to buy Vista.

And who could that someone be ?

Steve Ballmer perhaps ? It's the sort of churlish thing that only a top exec could do; and quite frankly, given his psychological profile, I could almost see him doing this as a sort of payback.

If this is so, (and there is no reason to think not) then MS is effectively handing Apple a big "Get out of Jail for Free" card, when Apple themselves, fully expected to be hit by a Tidal wave called Windows 7.

I am sure that the guys at Cupertino will be scratching their heads, sighing with relief and laughing at how M$ has yet again, managed to shoot itself in the foot.

Aqua
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MacMini87
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm able to leave a proper reply now as I was using my iPod before and typing is a nuisance.

Well, you've all raised excellent points, and I must say I've learned quite allot.

I don't think there is any doubt that one of the main reasons Apple is where it is now is because of Vista, with Vista came poorly written software, bad code, driver issues and software compatibility. The average computer user doesn't want that, the average user wants to go about his or her business (Work or play) without problems, sweeps or slow downs.

Vista opened doors for Apple, and allowed them to come out on top and say "Hey, Vista is slow and buggy, use OS X and you'll be amazed at how good computers can be"

So many people switched over, so to speak, they realized the grass can be greener on the other side.

So now we need to think about Apple users, and whether they would consider switching back to a Windows world? Well, I don't know about anyone else, but me? Nope. I won't deny I have XP dual booted at the moment, and this topic was posted because I was considering the upgrade to 7. The only times I use Windows is when I have to, my Sister very occasionally uses my computer, and I'd rather her messing around on XP than my OS X partition. So I have my reasons to run Windows too.

I think Apple have a very dedicated group of users, the iPhone, the iMac, the Mac Mini (Look at us guys, we love the Mini, we love it so much we come on this forum and discus it)

I've seen videos and I watched Welcome to Macintosh 2008, most of the users and people commenting were saying, in a nutshell, they love Apple and would buy anything if it has the Apple badge.

I really don't think Apple have any need to worry in terms of Microsoft coming out ahead with Windows 7. Apple are doing what they do best, a fully integrated system, excellent software, no poorly written code and no slow downs or sweeps. Course there is no need to mention, Windows 7 is more likely to pick up a trojan or virus, than OS X.

So there is my two cents Smile

Cheers dudes

Dan
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good points Dan.

As for choosing between one Os or the other.

Well, you can use them all together on the same machine; or as most people do ... run Windows at work & OS-X at home.

Also, computers are now so relatively cheap, one can afford to buy two or even three new machines at a fraction of the price they used to be a decade ago.

That way you can run a variety of OS's without fear of loosing any data.

Aqua
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saul
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear - the Windows 7 upgrade license says "All editions of Windows XP and Windows Vista qualify you to upgrade." (I'm reading off the box I bought)

The instructions say for XP uses to "Save your files and settings on an external hard drive using Windows Easy Transfer" and to later restore with the same utility. It sounds like Migration Assistant to me minus the app move.

Microsoft tried to clean up its act with Vista but the users wouldn't go along. Now W7 has its own virtual XP to take care of those users' issues.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:
In fact, if I didn't know any better, I'd have thought that MS was deliberately punishing its XP users, for having refused to buy Vista.

And who could that someone be ?

Steve Ballmer perhaps ? It's the sort of churlish thing that only a top exec could do; and quite frankly, given his psychological profile, I could almost see him doing this as a sort of payback.
Aqua


I agree completely! I don't think the world (i.e. Business) is going to rush to Windows 7 as fast as many pundits think! I know my company isn't.
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