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Chris..S
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 704
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 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| JohnnyBoy wrote: | | zen wrote: | | JohnnyBoy wrote: | Uhhh, thanks Apple.  |
If you need 8GB of RAM you are a pro level user and should not be using a mini in the first place. |
If I put my "computer user" hat on, then I fully agree with you, Zen. But when I put my "geek" hat on (I graduated in engineering in the dim & distant past), I just think that taking the conscious decision to restrict a machine's abilities is a little bit mean-spirited.
Many moons ago ("when I were a lad"), Intel wanted to expand their range of 80486 CPUs. The marketing people wanted a "cut-down" version to sell at a cheaper price. What did Intel do? They took a proportion of their 80486 processors (the full part number had a "DX" suffix) and disabled the onboard maths co-processor. The hobbled DX chips were given a new suffix ("SX") and sold at a discount.
Funny thing is, the extra step of disabling the maths co-pro on a DX made the SX chips more expensive to produce (...well, until the SX eventually got its own production line).
My engineering brain HATES this! Restricting a machine's capabilities for the sake of market segmentation? GRRRR!
Right..... what was the topic of this thread again?   |
Arrrrh, them were thar days. That was the last time I recommended to anyone to use processor speed as a key factor in computer purchase. Ever since 486DX2/66 there has been little point in paying a premium for the cpu in a standard office pc. You definitely didn't want a 486SX/25. |
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zen
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 151
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Even if you could slip a quad core in there I don't think the 110watt power brick could handle it. |
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fhall1
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Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 128
Location: Upstate NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| And even though 8GB definitely won't work, it'd be nice to know if 6GB would work. |
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Yvan256
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Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| JohnnyBoy wrote: | | Many moons ago ("when I were a lad"), Intel wanted to expand their range of 80486 CPUs. [...] Funny thing is, the extra step of disabling the maths co-pro on a DX made the SX chips more expensive to produce (...well, until the SX eventually got its own production line) |
I heard the SX line was simply DX chips that didn't pass the math co-processor test? (i.e. broken DX chips)
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Mac mini 2010 (Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz/8 GiB)
12" PowerBook (G4 1.5 GHz/512 MiB)
1st gen. iPod touch (16 GiB)
2nd gen. iPod shuffle (1 GiB) |
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magnusdredd
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| JohnnyBoy wrote: | | zen wrote: | | JohnnyBoy wrote: | | Uhhh, thanks Apple. |
If you need 8GB of RAM you are a pro level user and should not be using a mini in the first place. |
If I put my "computer user" hat on, then I fully agree with you, Zen. But when I put my "geek" hat on (I graduated in engineering in the dim & distant past), I just think that taking the conscious decision to restrict a machine's abilities is a little bit mean-spirited.
<SNIP>
My engineering brain HATES this! Restricting a machine's capabilities for the sake of market segmentation? GRRRR! |
The issue is with the Nvidia 9400M chipset used by the machine.
Apple's new laptops which use the 9400M have the same issue. Furthermore if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this also affects non-Apple 9400M based computers. |
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JohnnyBoy
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Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 3954
Location: West Sussex, South-East England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| Chris..S wrote: | | You definitely didn't want a 486SX/25. |
No Chris, you didn't!
Do you remember the Tandon 486s? They were marketed as "futureproof" because the processor was on a daughter-card and could be theoretically swapped for the next generation of Intel CPU.
How we laughed as we tried to install Vista on a Tandon "futureproof" PC...
| Yvan256 wrote: | | I heard the SX line was simply DX chips that didn't pass the math co-processor test? (i.e. broken DX chips) |
I'm sure that broken DX chips would have been re-labelled, but would that have provided enough SX chips to satisfy demand?
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Intel Mini 2.0GHz C2D (4GB/120GB/SuperDrive/10.5.8 ), 120GB WD Passport, Logitech ergo k/b
iPod Touch (32GB, 3rd gen), iPod Shuffle (512MB, 1st gen) |
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JohnnyBoy
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Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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Location: West Sussex, South-East England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| magnusdredd wrote: | The issue is with the Nvidia 9400M chipset used by the machine.
Apple's new laptops which use the 9400M have the same issue. Furthermore if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this also affects non-Apple 9400M based computers. |
What's strange Magnus, is that the latest MacBook with the 9400M chipset is supposed to have a memory maximum of 4GB but can actually access 6GB. Now we find out that the new Mini can take 8GB, but mysteriously slows to a crawl if you do install that much.
As Zen points out, the average Mini owner isn't likely to need 8GB of memory. But why impose artificial limits? Once again, I suspect that Apple is trying to protect the models further up the range.
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Intel Mini 2.0GHz C2D (4GB/120GB/SuperDrive/10.5.8 ), 120GB WD Passport, Logitech ergo k/b
iPod Touch (32GB, 3rd gen), iPod Shuffle (512MB, 1st gen) |
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SOCOMRAIDER
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Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2869
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to save a little cash. You can buy some Crucial RAM from Newegg. Right now it's only $52.99 shipped.
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99Cent
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Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SOCOMRAIDER wrote: | | If you want to save a little cash. You can buy some Crucial RAM from Newegg. Right now it's only $52.99 shipped. |
Thanks for the link! I'll probably order some here shortly. I'm not saying the OWC memory is bad, but Crucial is tops in my book. |
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magnusdredd
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Re: OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini |
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| JohnnyBoy wrote: | | magnusdredd wrote: | The issue is with the Nvidia 9400M chipset used by the machine.
Apple's new laptops which use the 9400M have the same issue. Furthermore if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this also affects non-Apple 9400M based computers. |
What's strange Magnus, is that the latest MacBook with the 9400M chipset is supposed to have a memory maximum of 4GB but can actually access 6GB. |
The listed maximum is due to the fact that when Apple originally created the laptop, the largest readily available RAM modules were 2GB sticks. Apple, like most vendors, lists the maximum amount of RAM as the maximum amount that they offer in a configuration. It's actually not the maximum amount of RAM the hardware can support, just what the OEM chooses to certify that will work.
Over the nearly 30 years I've been using computers, I've added more RAM than spec on many machines from many different vendors, although there also been quite a few where the listed maximum was the actual maximum. In many older systems this was due to small address tables in the memory controller from what I understand.
It's worth noting that 8GB of RAM can physically be installed in the 9400M based MacBooks and MacBook Pros. As with the Mac Mini, they also have issues when 8GB is installed.
| JohnnyBoy wrote: | | Now we find out that the new Mini can take 8GB, but mysteriously slows to a crawl if you do install that much. |
So the case is this:
MacBook: 4GB Listed Max, 8GB Installable Max, 6GB Usable Max
MacBook Pro: 4GB Listed Max, 8GB Installable Max, 6GB Usable Max
Mac Mini: 4GB Listed Max, 8GB Installable Max, 6GB Usable Max
After some further reading on this issue, it's apparent that the chipset will support 8GB. Leopard will support at least 32GB.
The "artificial limits" are probably the result of a driver bug. This is probably just a case of poor programming and not Apple sticking it to the common guy. While Apple has a well deserved reputation for arbitrary limits, it does not mean that every limitation in their products is intentional.
If it was intentional, the MacBook Pro line would be able to address 8GB of RAM using the 9400M chipset. This is not the case.
Some links:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/11/confirmed_new_macbooks_support_6gb_ram-2.html
http://www.techztalk.com/techwebsite/10-30-08-new-macbooks-supports-up-to-6gb-of-ram-but-not-8gb |
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