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Obama or McCain?
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Obama or McCain?
Obama
72%
 72%  [ 36 ]
McCain
28%
 28%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 50

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mdgm
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostdawg wrote:
Probably some young kid who don't have a worry in the world except how he can get the latest iPod/MBA etc etc etc...


No I'm an adult who believes America should have a good President. Bush is a good President and I would be happy for him to remain President for years to come. He has had the courage to go to war against the Islamist extremists rather than wait for them to cause more terror.

What problem do some of you have with me pointing out a flaw in the US Presidential system? Or are you so narrow-minded that you believe that everyone thinks Bush is a bad President.

Btw I don't have an iPod and I think MBA is totally inadequate for my purposes. It's more expensive than a macbook, got worse specs and it doesn't even come with an inbuilt dvd burner. It's a rip off.
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Pleiades
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdgm wrote:
No I'm an adult who believes America should have a good President. Bush is a good President and I would be happy for him to remain President for years to come.

Fortunately, the 22nd amendment was passed and ratified in 1951, preventing such an occurrence. From the tone in your original post, I gather that you're not an American. Speaking as one, I find the term limits imposed on the office of President to be a very reasonable and wise choice. Historically, too many sovereign states have found themselves in a stranglehold by solitary or dynastic rule. In my personal opinion, I find our current two party system far too restrictive as is. If there were no term limits, I'd be feeling even less represented in our federal government than I already do.

If your definition of a 'good' leader is measured simply by the ability to conduct a war against other nation(s), Bush would certainly fit that definition, as would other infamous historic world leaders.

Personally, I believe a 'good' leader fulfills many positive facets in government which in turn, lead to positive changes in people's lives. In the almost 8 years that Bush has been president of my country, I have seen almost zero positives, and many negatives. Some of those negatives, such as the deaths of friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan, can never be fixed, no matter who becomes President in the future. However, future loss of my countrymen may be different depending on who is in office come November.

mdgm wrote:
Or are you so narrow-minded that you believe that everyone thinks Bush is a bad President.

No one is deluding themselves so completely as to believe that everyone thinks Bush is a bad President. Since approval ratings tend to be the only accepted metric that measures Presidential success, the polls show that over 65% of Americans believe bush is not doing a good job as President. It's clear to me, that the uproar heard about dislike for Bush is not just a noisy minority. It's an upset majority.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions. Thankfully, if you are not an American, as I gathered from your previous posts, your opinion is all that it will remain and not a vote for a candidate that will bring our country further to its knees.
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ghostdawg
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree from Polls, it seems Bush is not too popular with the majority.

Quote:
A new poll suggests President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history. The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey indicates that 71 percent of the American public disapprove of how Bush is handling his job. The poll also indicates that support for the war in Iraq has never been lower


It seems to me if his gov't claims bin-laden was responsible for the attack on 9/11, why are we still in Iraq? And if Bush could remain president for years to come, he would have to wait in line, because some of the other past crooks would have stayed in office till they died, Nixon, Reagan, daddy Bush, just to name a few. I'm sure you feel they were good presidents also.

ClunkClunk just about summed up alot of what I think also.
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mdgm
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostdawg wrote:


And if Bush could remain president for years to come, he would have to wait in line, because some of the other past crooks would have stayed in office till they died, Nixon, Reagan, daddy Bush, just to name a few. I'm sure you feel they were good presidents also.

ClunkClunk just about summed up alot of what I think also.


You obviously can't read my mind. I understand that Nixon betrayed his country. I don't know much about Reagan or Bush's father. Just because I like the current President it doesn't mean that I like other ones. Sure, the limit two terms helps stop Presidents continuing that are bad, but it also stops the good from continuing. While it has benefits, it also has drawbacks.

The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein and with the Taliban no longer in power in Afghanistan. It is Bush's desire to make the world a better place that I admire, his determination to do what is right, no matter whether it is popular or not.

The next President you Americans have, will have a high standard to live up to. McCain looks like the best of the alternatives, but I'm not convinced even he would be as good as Bush.

I've made my point and this is the last post in this thread that I'll mention Bush.
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ghostdawg
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I can't read your mind but since you like Bush I just thought you would have liked the others I mention, since they all ran the presidency similarly, IMO. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!

Quote:
The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein and with the Taliban no longer in power in Afghanistan.

I thought it was Bush who stated that bin-laden was responsible for the attacks on 9/11. He's still MIA and going to make the world a worser place even though Saddam is dead. Oh yea I guess the OIL is the main objective. I don't see how Iraq is better off, they didn't have all this caos under him.

As far as the Taiban goes, well one thing I can say is during their time, they did stop the poppy fields from flourishing, but since they're no longer in charge, now the fields are back in action and dope is flourishing again.

IMHO, I do think McCain going to win because I believe the USA is not ready for a minority president. Let's hope I'm wrong.
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's quite easy for someone who is obviously not an American to say things are great and Bush is the best thing since sliced bread, but from those of us who live here under King George's rule, things have continued to decline since the day he first took office. If you want an opinion on how well he is doing ask the people in New Orleans. Maybe getting Saddam was more a priority than the welfare of people living in the U.S.A., but I disagree. Are we better off in the U.S. without Saddam, if paying 3 times the price were paying for gas before Dubya went off on his personal vendetta, we are better, but I don't think so. If a good president is rated on a failed economy, ever rising gas prices, home foreclosures and more, than so be it. I think his opinion is based on how the U.S. dollar has be so devalued, now he has great purchase power, if that makes Bush a great president, I'm glad that as of January 20, 2009 he'll be out of a job.

As far as the Taliban is concerned, they are not out of the picture at all, look at what is going on now in Afganisthan and Pakistan.

I am afraid that I must agree with ghostdawg here that America is not ready for a minority president, woman or black, but I would support either of them.
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hackersmovie
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try not to rant too much here (I have my other post for that! LOL). . .

1) I've already stated, there will be no minority leader in the USA. At least not this term

2) Bush? I've stated many things in various posts already but, to say he is a fine leader is insane. Until you've lived in the USA, being governed by the man, you may want to keep your opinions to his international policies. He fails terribly here at home, which for me is pretty darn important. Abroad, I feel he's failed as well. Our international image is no where near as good as it has been. We've INVADED, without cause, foreign countries. The only truth, I can find in that is that we should help defend weaker countries. Should we feel inclined to defend them from themselves? I think not. Should we help defend them from OTHER invaders? I think so. The only logical reason I can find with us going to either Afaghanastan or Iraq is personal monetary gain. It's sickening. What were we doing in Afghanastan anyway? We found nothing, got nothing, did nothing. Other than drop food on people and bomb the shit out of them, real productive.

So, someone tell me, exactly what GOOD ole' George W. Bush has done? Perhaps improved his golf swing? It's certainly nothing I see.



Oh, wait, I know.

1) trashed the value of the dollar
2) started 2 wars with no cause
3) crippled the US economy, while slowing the international economy as well ( kudos georgie!)
4) enacted the worst education bill to date (no child left behind) It leaves ALL the children behind in order to level the playing field, brilliant
5) near record fuel prices
6) record high home foreclosures
7) record high "credit crunch" (i.e. Bankruptcies, if you don't believe me, ask any finance manager or bank loan officer)
8 ) All but forgotten about health care, which from a very recent experience needs a major overhaul
9) enacted another great bill, the Patriot Act, which almost gives our government carte' blanch to do what they like. Hmm... can you say Communism?

O.k. that's enough, my blood pressure is up about 20 points, I need a beer. If most Americans are like me, it's possible "W" has increased the number of alcoholics as well. Wink
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zedtvl
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostdawg wrote:
.............

IMHO, I do think McCain going to win because I believe the USA is not ready for a minority president. Let's hope I'm wrong.


I am affraid you are right but as you said, I really hope you will be wrong.......
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NadiaGeek
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdgm wrote:
ghostdawg wrote:
Probably some young kid who don't have a worry in the world except how he can get the latest iPod/MBA etc etc etc...


No I'm an adult who believes America should have a good President. Bush is a good President and I would be happy for him to remain President for years to come. He has had the courage to go to war against the Islamist extremists rather than wait for them to cause more terror.

What problem do some of you have with me pointing out a flaw in the US Presidential system? Or are you so narrow-minded that you believe that everyone thinks Bush is a bad President.

Btw I don't have an iPod and I think MBA is totally inadequate for my purposes. It's more expensive than a macbook, got worse specs and it doesn't even come with an inbuilt dvd burner. It's a rip off.


America should have a good president? Absolutely right. So, instead of letting Bush reign for another four years, let's repeal the 22nd Amendment and elect Bill back in office. We already know Bill was a great president, and it seems as though you are reluctant to even consider Obama, Hillary, or McCain.

And as for your "...courage to go to war against the Islamic Extremists..." jazz, explain to me why, if he is so eager to fight terrorism, we ever invaded Iraq? The fight was in Afghanistan, yet we have a president who believes Iraq is infinitely more important than the country in which al Qaeda breeds. Iraq may have al Qaeda cells, but common sense and research will show that they were not there before we invaded, at least not en masse. And a foreigners opinion of our presidential system, or our president, is the least of our worries. Whether or not one believes the war in Iraq is a just war is irrelevant when speaking of letting the Bushivicks control things for another four years. Our economy is horrible, people are losing their jobs, homes, and entering the poorhouse in massive numbers. People can't afford to drive to work anymore, yet you say Bush is a good president. Whatever. Stay out of American politics until you understand what the hell is going on.
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have seen on The Daily Show, the US media keeps referring to Hillary as a 'minority candidate'. If these guys had checked their facts they would have discovered that in the United States, there are 97 males for every 100 females. That means that McCain is a 'minority candidate'! Smile

I suppose that's what becomes of having a media that's run by middle-aged, middle class white men. Rolling Eyes
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:


I suppose that's what becomes of having a media that's run by middle-aged, middle class white men. Rolling Eyes


Cough cough...


My dear JB..

Even if what you say, were true; what is the problem?

Most particularly since they also represent a very large percentage of the US population...?

And from what I read, there are many MCWM who are supporting Obama.

(better that, than supporting the devisively shrill & quasi racist Hillary Clinton...)

(BTW: I have already seen plenty of men being labelled as "Misogynists" for simply being opposed to her policies..) So much for decency and honesty...

In any case, we must avoid lazy generalizations and consequent negatively implied insinuations..

Cheers

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire, the 'robustness' of your reply caught me by surprise...

The consequences of having a military-industrial-government-media complex that's dominated by one group of intransigent, arrogant, unimaginative and inflexible individuals is there to see. In fact, you can take your pick:
- global climate change
- a global finance industry without a scrap of accountability for the periodic financial crashes that it routinely causes
- an education system that hasn't changed since the industrial revolution and that continues to churn out factory workers in the West long after the factory jobs have gone to the Far East
- the catastrophic incursion into the middle-east by the English-speaking democracies

Why does nothing change? Because Bush, Rumsfeld, Blair, Murdoch and all of the other privileged daddy's boys who meet up on the golf course are quite happy to leave things as they are.

And what happens when someone comes along and talks about change? Well, the status quo protects itself, and the media moguls play their part. A man who has a black father and a white mother is labelled as "the black candidate" (Nota bene: Neither McCain or Hillary are ever labelled as "the white candidates"). "Obama" is compared with "Osama". "Christian" is swapped for "Muslim", and "school" is swapped with "madrassa". Obama and Hillary are repeatedly and continuously labelled as 'minority' candidates, so that nobody watching the news can be allowed to forget who's in charge.

And the citizens of the US continue to be bombarded with this white, middle-class male view of the world day-in-day-out for months, until they are convinced that even in a land where "all men are created equal", America isn't ready for a 'minority' candidate. And so the world gets more of the same.
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
Aquafire, the 'robustness' of your reply caught me by surprise...

The consequences of having a military-industrial-government-media complex that's dominated by one group of intransigent, arrogant, unimaginative and inflexible individuals is there to see. In fact, you can take your pick:
- global climate change
- a global finance industry without a scrap of accountability for the periodic financial crashes that it routinely causes
- an education system that hasn't changed since the industrial revolution and that continues to churn out factory workers in the West long after the factory jobs have gone to the Far East
- the catastrophic incursion into the middle-east by the English-speaking democracies

Why does nothing change? Because Bush, Rumsfeld, Blair, Murdoch and all of the other privileged daddy's boys who meet up on the golf course are quite happy to leave things as they are.

And what happens when someone comes along and talks about change? Well, the status quo protects itself, and the media moguls play their part. A man who has a black father and a white mother is labelled as "the black candidate" (Nota bene: Neither McCain or Hillary are ever labelled as "the white candidates"). "Obama" is compared with "Osama". "Christian" is swapped for "Muslim", and "school" is swapped with "madrassa". Obama and Hillary are repeatedly and continuously labelled as 'minority' candidates, so that nobody watching the news can be allowed to forget who's in charge.

And the citizens of the US continue to be bombarded with this white, middle-class male view of the world day-in-day-out for months, until they are convinced that even in a land where "all men are created equal", America isn't ready for a 'minority' candidate. And so the world gets more of the same.


Very well said JohnnyBoy, and for me, quite accurate view from afar if you will. . .

Precisely why, in another thread, I said the "America is not ready or willing to have a black or woman in office". I would vote for either in a heartbeat providing they are qualified and pose similar views as my own. The vast majority of Americans do not view things this way. I've spoken with many who simply vote on 1 issue! Shocked While others I've spoken to say they "just wouldn't vote for a Black or a Woman" with no just cause. . .
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hackersmovie wrote:
Very well said JohnnyBoy, and for me, quite accurate view from afar if you will. . .

Thank you, Hackers.

I fear that Aquafire thinks that I'm stereotyping anyone who's middle-aged, middle class, white or male in a negative way; I'm not. I was trying to find a way to describe the spectacles through which the media shows us the world, and it's a view that's intended to keep yesterday's men in power.
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JB, the only thing I'd adjust is changing middle class to upper class. There's no chance that any of the aforementioned people are middle class.
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