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anthonymoody
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I shut down last night at around 9pm and went to watch TV. By the time I went to bed around 11:30 the fan had shut down. That's good I guess.

The bad: this morning I turned on the mini and the stack didn't spin up. I turned the mini off, then turned the stack off and on. That made the stack spin up. Then I turned the mini on no problem. I typically leave the mini on 24/7 so I guess this is not that big a deal (or am I deluding myself?)

The good: *so far* 15 minutes later the fan in the stack hasn't spun up...

TM
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devo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susurrus wrote:

Where you from again? So 10 minutes after the hard drive goes to sleep the fan goes off? I think that's what he's saying, Devo.


He lost me.
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Susurrus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthonymoody wrote:
Well, I shut down last night at around 9pm and went to watch TV. By the time I went to bed around 11:30 the fan had shut down. That's good I guess.

The bad: this morning I turned on the mini and the stack didn't spin up. I turned the mini off, then turned the stack off and on. That made the stack spin up. Then I turned the mini on no problem. I typically leave the mini on 24/7 so I guess this is not that big a deal (or am I deluding myself?)

The good: *so far* 15 minutes later the fan in the stack hasn't spun up...

TM


The ugly: Because the fan didn't spin up, the hard drive wasn't cooled off adequately and the hard drive is now dead...
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anthonymoody
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fan spun up shortly after I posted and has now been on for hours (4-ish?) but like most other noises it's fading to the background for me. I still may try to hide it somewhat to reduce the impact of the buzzing...

TM
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g5g5
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you should move that probe doohickey to another place on the drive. Did you install the drive or was in installed by OWC? I'd return the damm thing if its that loud!
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anthonymoody
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the whole kit from OWC, already assembled. So far the fan has not turned off today after coming on shortly after the drive itself. I'm still on the fence, however I LOVE the speed increase. If I get rid of this I'm DEFINITELY getting another (quieter) external FW drive. I do love the integrated hubs though.

To be specific, here are some before and after xbench scores. Sorry they're so long.

BEFORE
Results 113.19
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.4.1 (8B15)
Physical RAM 1024 MB
Model PowerMac10,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.42 GHz
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.42 GHz
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV280
Drive Type ST9808210A
CPU Test 167.53
GCD Loop 157.80 6.16 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 169.12 611.60 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 169.46 4.92 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 172.53 2.68 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 169.52 6.79 Mops/sec
Thread Test 119.16
Computation 86.37 1.17 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 192.11 2.41 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 130.55
System 137.06
Allocate 582.10 379.70 Kalloc/sec
Fill 163.04 1297.79 MB/sec
Copy 71.24 356.19 MB/sec
Stream 124.63
Copy 122.54 895.78 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 122.99 907.67 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 126.36 808.69 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 126.74 774.37 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 139.79
Line 106.65 2.71 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 107.32 7.55 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 121.37 2.80 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 149.83 1.63 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 463.19 7.55 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 114.94
Spinning Squares 114.94 80.44 frames/sec
User Interface Test 212.06
Elements 212.06 68.21 refresh/sec
Disk Test 51.94
Sequential 50.12
Uncached Write 43.61 18.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 62.42 25.56 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 38.21 6.05 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 68.11 27.52 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 53.91
Uncached Write 45.44 0.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 47.27 10.66 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 67.95 0.45 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 61.27 12.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]

AFTER
Results 134.14
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.4.2 (8C46)
Physical RAM 1024 MB
Model PowerMac10,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.42 GHz
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.42 GHz
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV280
Drive Type HDS72404 0KLAT80
CPU Test 169.55
GCD Loop 160.52 6.27 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 174.77 632.01 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 173.72 5.05 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 167.29 2.60 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 172.29 6.90 Mops/sec
Thread Test 123.86
Computation 89.03 1.20 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 203.50 2.55 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 123.91
System 136.34
Allocate 736.39 480.35 Kalloc/sec
Fill 205.19 1633.30 MB/sec
Copy 63.41 317.03 MB/sec
Stream 113.56
Copy 106.75 780.34 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 108.86 803.40 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 120.51 771.25 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 119.44 729.79 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 138.07
Line 108.30 2.76 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 109.95 7.73 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 124.18 2.86 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 159.54 1.73 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 280.48 4.57 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 126.12
Spinning Squares 126.12 88.26 frames/sec
User Interface Test 231.56
Elements 231.56 74.48 refresh/sec
Disk Test 93.89
Sequential 92.03
Uncached Write 104.50 43.56 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 79.78 32.67 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 92.15 14.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 95.14 38.44 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 95.83
Uncached Write 111.77 1.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 117.08 26.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 100.97 0.67 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 69.70 14.35 MB/sec [256K blocks]

I'm not sure how much faster 134 is supposed to feel than 113 but it's kind of night and day. As you can see the drive scores are almost 2x. No more pauses, no more spinning beach balls...amazing. Much bigger difference than when I went from 512 to a gig of RAM...

TM
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Susurrus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, first off the difference when going from a half-gig to a gig of RAM would be negligible to begin with unless you do a lot of video/audio/digital imagery. It's when you're at 256mb that any increase is definitely noticable.

If you want to shorten the XBench results just display the ones that are highlighted/bold when you perform it, they're subcategory headers or something.

Also, I assume you're booting off the external? An increase of 18.5% should be pretty noticable, even if it is just from the hard drive. Hopefully this, combined with the speed increases with from 10.4.2, will make a lot more games playable on the Mac.
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anthonymoody
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips. And yes, am definitely booting off the new external drive. It's actually truly amazing to me, given the performance increase, that Apple didn't step up to at least a 5400 RPM drive (I know they were shipped in some 1.25 minis).

I upped the RAM for the same reason I got the external/faster drive: my wife is expecting so I plan on having some footage to cut Smile

TM
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Susurrus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthonymoody wrote:
Thanks for the tips. And yes, am definitely booting off the new external drive. It's actually truly amazing to me, given the performance increase, that Apple didn't step up to at least a 5400 RPM drive (I know they were shipped in some 1.25 minis).

TM


The 5400 drive is the 40Gb drive. Because it's so much smaller, and probably, therefore, cheaper, Apple can afford to buy a little nicer quality one instead of cutting the price to some number that doesn't end in 99. The 5400rpm 80Gb drives are considerably more expensive than what Apple charges to upgrade to the current 4200rpm drive, so price was a factor there as well.

Remember, more features/performance and less cost are (practically always)mutually exclusive.
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FishKepr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anthonymoody wrote:
The fan spun up shortly after I posted and has now been on for hours (4-ish?) but like most other noises it's fading to the background for me. I still may try to hide it somewhat to reduce the impact of the buzzing...

TM


That is consistant with what I have experienced. The fan takes longer to come on first thing in the morning because it's been cooling all night. Once the drive spins up the fan comes on and stays on unless the drive spins down.

This occurs reguardless of actual read/write activity because the heat is generated when ever the disks are spinning.

What I've been doing so far is to unmount the drive and use it as a hub only. I then use Disk Utility to remount it whenever I need it, which fortunately is not that often.
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joedefig
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:30 am    Post subject: The Mac mini is heating up the miniStack Reply with quote

It actually seems to be the heat coming off of the Mac mini that is causing the miniStack fan to stay on all the time until the Mac mini is idle or in Sleep mode.
If I keep the miniStack next to the Mac mini (instead of under) then the minStack's fan does not stay on anywhere near as much. So the Mac mini is heating up the miniStack.
So I think the idea of the clear rubber feet to separate the two units a little should help. Should have the effect of what Lacie is doing with their mini drive. I'll have to give it a try this weekend. I have the miniStack that came with the Hitachi 250GB drive installed.
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spoonman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject: FYI... Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info regarding the ministack on here. I just ordered mine from OWC on Sun. It was supposed to ship today or tomorrow, but according to customer support @ OWC, they are now saying they are not getting any in stock until July 20th. Just thought I would let you all know.....

BTW -- I ordered the bare kit. I already bought a Seagate 7200.8 250GB HD. It is VERY quiet to match the mini. Although it does tend to run warm, so we will see how it does in the ministack enclosure.

Also for what it's worth... I believe the video chip is cooled via the bottom of the mini. That is probably why there is so much heat transfer. I wonder if it would run cooler sitting on top of the mini instead. Of course this may affect your airport/bluetooth signal. Just a thought.....
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sylvere
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guy to ask you to test the temperature of you mini i just find out Mac mini doesn t have sonsor for the heat in.. so i guess they is no way to know how warm it is ?
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greg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sylvere wrote:
Sorry guy to ask you to test the temperature of you mini i just find out Mac mini doesn t have sonsor for the heat in.. so i guess they is no way to know how warm it is ?


Actually, you can monitor the temperature of the Mini internal drive using a program like Temperature Monitor. I do.

Unfortunately, I don't believe Apple provides support for monitoring S.M.A.R.T. capable drives connected via FireWire. Would be nice.
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greg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The Mac mini is heating up the miniStack Reply with quote

joedefig wrote:
It actually seems to be the heat coming off of the Mac mini that is causing the miniStack fan to stay on all the time until the Mac mini is idle or in Sleep mode...
...So I think the idea of the clear rubber feet to separate the two units a little should help. Should have the effect of what Lacie is doing with their mini drive. I'll have to give it a try this weekend. I have the miniStack that came with the Hitachi 250GB drive installed.


I believe you are correct. The bottom of the Mini is a heat factory. I added some clear adhesive backed feet both to the bottom of the Mini and bottom of the MiniStack and it seems to help keep the top of the miniStack cooler and give it room to radiate heat away underneath. I have not had problems with the fan running non-stop. Like you said, the addition of some cheap feet gives you some separation that should achieve the same effect as the LaCie design with the additional bonus of a nice hub which the LaCie does not provide.
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