123Macmini.com
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   GalleryPhoto Gallery   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Will you purchase a MacPro?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    123Macmini.com - Forums Forum Index -> Mac Desktops
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Will you purchase a MacPro? Reply with quote

What would Apple have to offer to inspire you to purchase a MacPro?

Many of us begged for a headless Mac. The Mac mini for many was the answer but for some of us, it is not enough and many people are not thrilled about the iMac's All In One design.

I doubt very much that Apple will make a MacPro affordable enough for most of us to purchase but I hope they do.

At what price point would you purchase a MacPro? What sort of features would it have to offer?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SOCOMRAIDER
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2869
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As most of the rumors are going around, most of them will probably be false. But I do hope they provide a more wide range in the Mac Pro segment, even as going as far to provide just a "Mac" with no "Pro". The Mac Mini does have it purposes, but a decent sized computer with standard 3.5" HDs and standard size GPUs, etc. would fit the bill. To provide some of a midway point between a Mini and a Mac Pro of sorts, sorry but the all-in-one iMac doesn't count.
It could even have a different case from a Mac Pro. I like the iMac, it's a great value. However, I usually try to stay away from all-in-one devices. If one part breaks, then you are just SOL and have to take the whole thing in. iMac is a thing of beauty, but I would love to see a "standard desktop" along with a high-end workstation.

[edit]
But to go with your question of what I would like to see, at least in a mid-range Mac.

-Core 2 Duo
-160-up-to-500GB 7200 RPM SATA HD (with two HD bays)
-option of up to a 256MB PCI or PCI express GPU
-come with a standard of 1GB (don't understand why the top-of-the-line G5 PowerMac still comes stock with 512MB)
-Maybe a nice aluminum or polycarbonate case


For a Mac Pro...
The entry level either like stated above. Or the top-of-the-line Mac Pro with the following..

-Woodcrest Xeon 3GHz (to deliver on that 3GHz)
-option of OS X on a 10,000 RPM drive, with storage on a high capacity 7,200 RPM drive
-256MB or 512MB PCIe GPU
-come standard of at least 1GB or 2GB
-at least 1GHz FSB
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be great if Apple came out with a "Mac" or "Mac Media Center"

If I were to make it, I would be careful not to cannibalize other models so of course it would have limitations. Like 1 HD bay. 1 DVD/CD drive bay and onboard video, with 1 expansion slot for an upgraded video card etc. The unit would be quiet and small. I'd try to price it close to the price of an iMac minus the price of a cheap 20" monitor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
offabroadway
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Nanaimo, BC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what Apple would have to do to it's desktop models to convince me to go out and update, etc:

~ Mac Mini ~
Core Duo 1.83 & 2.0Ghz
512Mb RAM w/80 & 100Gb HD (2.5)
ATI X1600 64Mb VRAM

~ iMac ~
Core2Duo 2.2 & 2.6Ghz
512Mb RAM /200 & 300Gb HD
ATI X1600 256Mb VRAM

~ Mac ~
Core2Duo 2.2 & 2.6Ghz
512Mb RAM /200 & 300Gb HD
PCIe slot, ATIX1600 256Mb VRAM stock

~ MacPro ~
Woodcrest Xeon 2.8, 3.0, 3.4Ghz (available in single or dual chip)
1Gb RAM /500, 750, 1Tb, and 1.4Tb HD
PCIe slot, NVidia Quadro FX 512Mb VRAM

These are my predictions for say, six months from now. While I agree that Apple should build a Mac, without the Pro, I think the topic is a very iffy one, considering the success of the iMac line and the subsequent effect offering a headless iMac would have on that line. It's more likely, I think, that they will offer a watered down base model MacPro to fill the gap, instead of offering the "headed or headless" approach, because either way, they may lose that war. Make the Mac too much cheaper than the iMac, and not only will the iMac die out as people search out their own displays, but Mini sales will suffer too (if you could get ATI graphics, Core2Duo, and expansion opportunities for 150 to 200 more than the Mini, would you?). Make it too expensive or close to the iMac, and people will stick with the iMac, because they get the screen too. Only those with need for expansion and higher performance would buy, and at that price range, it's only a few more hundreds until you hit MacPro territory.

While it would be a boon for some, I think the idea of the headless iMac will not surface for some time. A redesigned iMac is probably waiting for us at WWDC this year, along with the MacPro and Leopard, and maybe a new iPod for Christmas. After all, they have to have been doing something interesting since January when they rolled out the first Mactels.

The thing I can't wait to see most is Leopard.
Very Happy
_________________
~Mac Mini Core Duo / 512Mb / 80Gb / Tascam US-122~
~iPod Video 30Gb~
~JVC R-X60 Vintage Audio~

~GF to get an iMac? Converting the masses... *grin*~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SOCOMRAIDER
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2869
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

offabroadway wrote:

These are my predictions for say, six months from now. While I agree that Apple should build a Mac, without the Pro, I think the topic is a very iffy one, considering the success of the iMac line and the subsequent effect offering a headless iMac would have on that line. It's more likely, I think, that they will offer a watered down base model MacPro to fill the gap, instead of offering the "headed or headless" approach, because either way, they may lose that war. Make the Mac too much cheaper than the iMac, and not only will the iMac die out as people search out their own displays, but Mini sales will suffer too (if you could get ATI graphics, Core2Duo, and expansion opportunities for 150 to 200 more than the Mini, would you?). Make it too expensive or close to the iMac, and people will stick with the iMac, because they get the screen too. Only those with need for expansion and higher performance would buy, and at that price range, it's only a few more hundreds until you hit MacPro territory.

I agree with most of what you are saying. However, I think the price of a Mac Pro will throw off a lot of PC consumers. Also a lot of PC consumers look at the Mini and say, "integrated graphics and laptop hard drive, next!"
I think it would be wise to offer something similar to an iMac without a screen. There are many of us who bought a Mini because we already had monitors to begin with, or we liked its small size or also because of its price. Most of us didn't go with PowerMac G5 on its price point. So I think there is a middle ground between the two, at least for a computer that doesn't come with a screen.
Of course there is a consumer out there who is looking for a slick all-in-one design and they will continue to buy iMacs. But offer something in the realm of a tower box for all the people that already have monitors, that might be another crossover type deal for those who think a Mini is too weak. Then again there will be people who are just looking only for checking emails, surfing the web and what not. Who also want something small, those people will continue to buy Mac Minis also.
Even if the Mac is in a smaller tower configuration and offer all the things the Mini doesn't. Like easy upgradability, bigger HD, component GPU. No doubt it should sell well.
The main thing is also, the Mac Pro is exactly what the name implies. It's a professional workstation, which shouldn't be viewed as a simple entry level desktop. Even if they offer a Mac in the same case as the Mac Pro, but with less features and a Core 2 Duo. They should name it just Mac, to differentiate between a consumer tower and a professional workstation.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another thread going that asks what 3 things would you like to see in a future Mac mini. A few people have mentioned the desire for a 3.5" HD. Others have asked for independant/upgradable video.

I agree. Personally I think making a home computer out of laptop components is a bad idea. It's adds needless cost, reduces performance and average life expectancy. It makes it more difficult to upgrade and more costly to repair/replace components due to price and availability.

Lets face it many people do not want AIO's. The CRT eMac is a great example. It was a lot of computer for a great price. Yet nobody wants it.

Many people are using their mini's as media centers, audio servers, movie servers etc. Just about every person using their mini for these tasks has had to buy an external 3.5" drive.

Apple is very good at making the choice between models very difficult. I really hope this time around that they offer a lower cost tower. Many switchers will buy into a tower, but won't buy mini's, AIO's or high priced MacPros.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
picaman
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1444
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
I really hope this time around that they offer a lower cost tower.


It'll never happen.

Which means that it will be announced at WWDC Razz

Seriously, if Apple offered this it would be my next Mac. But I bet that they think it will cannibalize MacPro sales, and they might be right about that.

Smile

Jamie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

picaman wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
I really hope this time around that they offer a lower cost tower.


It'll never happen.

Which means that it will be announced at WWDC Razz

Seriously, if Apple offered this it would be my next Mac. But I bet that they think it will cannibalize MacPro sales, and they might be right about that.

Smile

Jamie


It likely would cannibalize MacPro sales. However it may also bring over more switchers, resulting in larger profits. It may also generate a few more dollars profit from people like me. I never would have bought a mini if Apple offered a low cost tower. Apple however would have seen more of my $ towards a low cost tower purchase.

The Mac mini is marketed at switchers. However, most people coming from the PC side are used to towers. Most want the ability to upgrade (even though they likely never will).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SOCOMRAIDER
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2869
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

picaman wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
I really hope this time around that they offer a lower cost tower.


It'll never happen.

Which means that it will be announced at WWDC Razz

Seriously, if Apple offered this it would be my next Mac. But I bet that they think it will cannibalize MacPro sales, and they might be right about that.

Smile

Jamie

I don't think it would necessarily cut into Mac Pro sales. I mean a Mac Pro is geared for the professional at whatever they do. They usually want to get the most performance they possibly can to maximize their workload. If there is a computer out there that can handle something just a little faster, especially high computing tasks like real time graphic rending, etc. There will always be people that need a Mac Pro. But let's face it, a Mac Pro is never geared to the average consumer. And neither is the Mac Mini.

Something for the average consumer would be something they are used to in the PC world. A little close in price, but most importantly, the functionality, upgradability and size and set up of a PC tower. When 90% of people think of a "computer" they think a big tower, with a separate monitor and a bunch of other add ons.

If they were to make something with Apple's unique styling, out of standard tower parts. They could easily offer something a lot more competitive for the price in terms of standard desktop size component part performance. As usual they could get huge margins for this. There are many people who like the Mini, but don't like its laptop components, mainly the 2.5" HD.

Of course they should continue to offer the Mini. It still has a following and simply there are people who don't need a lot in terms of raw performance (which you have to admit the stock 2.5" HD is a limiter on the Mini). Who just want a simple, no fuss, small computer to check email , etc. The Mini fits that bill and will continue to do so. You also have to admit (even though the average consumer doesn't upgrade their own computer), that they are more likely to upgrade something more easier, like a full size tower. As compared to something that needs a pizza cutter, putty knife and a bunch of small precision screw drivers. Especially in a such a relatively small compact space as the Mini.

Bandit Bill wrote:

It likely would cannibalize MacPro sales. However it may also bring over more switchers, resulting in larger profits. It may also generate a few more dollars profit from people like me. I never would have bought a mini if Apple offered a low cost tower. Apple however would have seen more of my $ towards a low cost tower purchase.

The Mac mini is marketed at switchers. However, most people coming from the PC side are used to towers. Most want the ability to upgrade (even though they likely never will).

Actually it used to be that their PowerMacs had the greatest margin profit than anything they had, until the iPod, which due to its number of total sales has taken over.
It has been said by some industry insiders, familiar with the company (at least I've read), that the mark up on PowerMac is averaged to 200%-300% over cost of parts.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tenex
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
That would be great if Apple came out with a "Mac" or "Mac Media Center"

If I were to make it, I would be careful not to cannibalize other models so of course it would have limitations. Like 1 HD bay. 1 DVD/CD drive bay and onboard video, with 1 expansion slot for an upgraded video card etc. The unit would be quiet and small. I'd try to price it close to the price of an iMac minus the price of a cheap 20" monitor.


It could go lower there'd be no iSight for example.
_________________
iMac intel CoreDuo 17" 1Gb
WD My Book Premium fw320Gb x2
Logitech S530, iPod Nano 2Gb

& a PPC Mini bought for my Mother
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenex wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
That would be great if Apple came out with a "Mac" or "Mac Media Center"

If I were to make it, I would be careful not to cannibalize other models so of course it would have limitations. Like 1 HD bay. 1 DVD/CD drive bay and onboard video, with 1 expansion slot for an upgraded video card etc. The unit would be quiet and small. I'd try to price it close to the price of an iMac minus the price of a cheap 20" monitor.


It could go lower there'd be no iSight for example.


Yes it could. However... my thinking was more along the lines of making it a tough decision, not cannibalizing iMac sales and creating a larger profit margin on an entry level Mac.

Should I buy an iMac with a good monitor and a built in iSight? Or should a save a couple hundred bucks and use my existing monitor, or purchase a competitors monitor? The built in iSight certainly does make the iMac an attractive choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
devo
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 5387
Location: Dunwoody, GA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple answer. If they offer a single processor Mac Pro for under $1500, you betcha. That is after I buy a plasma TV first. My mini will go in the family room with the plamsa. The Mac Pro will become my primary desktop machine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
offabroadway
Member
Member


Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Nanaimo, BC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
There is another thread going that asks what 3 things would you like to see in a future Mac mini. A few people have mentioned the desire for a 3.5" HD. Others have asked for independant/upgradable video.

I agree. Personally I think making a home computer out of laptop components is a bad idea. It's adds needless cost, reduces performance and average life expectancy. It makes it more difficult to upgrade and more costly to repair/replace components due to price and availability.

Lets face it many people do not want AIO's. The CRT eMac is a great example. It was a lot of computer for a great price. Yet nobody wants it.

Many people are using their mini's as media centers, audio servers, movie servers etc. Just about every person using their mini for these tasks has had to buy an external 3.5" drive.

Apple is very good at making the choice between models very difficult. I really hope this time around that they offer a lower cost tower. Many switchers will buy into a tower, but won't buy mini's, AIO's or high priced MacPros.


I agree, but I disagree. I would never buy an AIO myself, because I know the horror of trying to repair/replace components, and do upgrades. So there would likely be a market for the headless Mac if the MacPro proved to be considerably more expensive. That's not to say that the majority of people do not want Minis though. While I agree that making a computer out of laptop components is less than the most efficient thing you can do, the Mac Mini has a definite niche market. It's geared towards the people who will never open their computer. They just need it to do the basics, and do it much better than a Windows PC. It's for the kid's room, the college student's dorm, a replacement for grandma's typewriter, and would make an excellent drop-in replacement for a company moving it's POS to Macintosh. So expensive though it may be, I think the majority of Mini users will never have to worry about it.

If they brought a Mac to the table, to augment the consumer line, it would make an excellent high-end consumer machine, or master machine, so that the rest of the house could be filled with Mac Minis, or a few iMacs.

I guess we all will really have to sit back and enjoy the show.
_________________
~Mac Mini Core Duo / 512Mb / 80Gb / Tascam US-122~
~iPod Video 30Gb~
~JVC R-X60 Vintage Audio~

~GF to get an iMac? Converting the masses... *grin*~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

offabroadway wrote:
I know the horror of trying to repair/replace components, and do upgrades. So there would likely be a market for the headless Mac if the MacPro proved to be considerably more expensive. That's not to say that the majority of people do not want Minis though. While I agree that making a computer out of laptop components is less than the most efficient thing you can do, the Mac Mini has a definite niche market. It's geared towards the people who will never open their computer.


The mac mini is senseless to repair. If you had a motherboard issue it would make more sense to buy a new model.
It is more cost effective to buy an external HD than upgrade/replace the internal drive because of the 2.5" form. The CD/DVD drive is also unnecessarily high priced due to being a laptop component.

Who really needs the mini to be 6.5 X 6.5 inches. A small tower could fill the same niche.

Even though most people will never open their computer, most people feel more comfortable knowing they can upgrade if needed.

I was just talking to a friend yesterday who is computer illiterate. This guy doesn't even own a computer. He said he saw a mini at FS. He wasn't even sure if it was a computer. When I started talking to him about it, the first thing he asked is if it was upgradable.

Again. I'd love to see a Mac come out. Give those of us who want full sized components an affordable solution. Not all of us want/need a Pro level machine.

I'd be in the market for a Mac at around $1000-$1100 USD. I'd love to hook my 20"ACD up to it Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SOCOMRAIDER
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2869
Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
Again. I'd love to see a Mac come out. Give those of us who want full sized components an affordable solution. Not all of us want/need a Pro level machine.

I'd be in the market for a Mac at around $1000-$1100 USD. I'd love to hook my 20"ACD up to it Smile

That is what I would like to see as well. To at least make it so that it gives you more options for your computer.

Like to offer the Mini
$500-1200
A Mac
$1000-2200
Mac Pro
$2000-10,000+

Of course there would be a big difference between storage and performance.
Make the max of each product line, as follows, adjusting pricing accordingly to features (I'm sure the pricing scheme of the Mac would need a higher top end OR cap its max potential).

Like the Minis containing Core Duos with integrated graphics, small HD and a slower disc drive. Basically what it is now.
The Mac containing a Core 2 Duo, with near top-of-the-line graphics, decent storage all the way up to 750GB, with a dual-layer top-of-the-line DVD burner.
The Mac Pro containing Woodcrest chips, the best graphics, up to 1-1.5TB of storage, with a next-gen Blu-Ray/HD DVD drive with a 2nd dual-layer DVD burner.

You can also see why I put $3000+ on the range of the Mac Pros. You already can customize a PowerMac G5 to the cost of a car!

Even if the Mac is in the same case or similar case as the Mac Pro. Change the processors and features, then change the name to distinguish the consumer line from the professional line.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    123Macmini.com - Forums Forum Index -> Mac Desktops All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



      

Shop:  Apple Store  |  Refurbished Macs  |  Refurbished iPads  |  MacConnection  |  Mac Mini Vault  |  Other World Computing

MK 1 Studio Mac mini Racks  |  Crucial Mac Memory  |  Top Free Mac Apps  |  Top Paid Mac Apps



123Macmini.com is an independent publication and has not been authorized, sponsored, or approved by Apple Computer, Inc.
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owners.
Copyright © 2011 123Macmini.com. All Rights Reserved.