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Backup strategy - any advice welcome!
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Backup strategy - any advice welcome! Reply with quote

I've been using TM on our 2 MMs (mid2007) for the last 4,5 years.
I use 2 ext FW400 HDs: on each I have TM backups of both MMs. One of these ext HDs is stored off site.
I used to do this daily, but got sloppy/lazy and now only do it weekly.
Photos and music (= my own CDs imported into iTunes) I keep on an ext USB2.0 HD, which is backed up with TM in the same way as the MMs.
I recently also copied my photos onto DVDs, just in case.

After reading this (https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3045) I realized that I should also use CCC or Superduper to make clones.

Ideally I'd like to stick to using 'just' (those or other/newer) HDs.
Q: Can/should I partition each backup FW HD and use, for each HD, one partition for the TM backups (of both MMs) and the other for a CCC/SD clone?
Or is that too risky, also given that the ext backup HDs are 4,5 yrs old as well?

PS: I'm thinking about possibly upgrading one of the MMs next year or so, in which case I'd get (at least one) faster external HD too.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Peter
(in France)
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Cypher
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backup 3-2-1 is a good rule to follow. This means at least 3 Backup copies of anything you want to keep. On 2 different types of storage media. With 1 of these copies being offsite.

I have more than three backups but I do prefer to use HDD rather than optical media. So I'm not fully following the above as my system is all HDD storage media.
My storage is also short term and rotated frequently so unlikely I will hit a problem of the media being an issue.


As for my backups I no longer use Time Machine and use Carbon Copy Cloner and ChronoSync instead.

I do an occasional Carbon Copy Cloner full disk clone to a bare 3.5" drive which I use via an External Drive Dock

I use ChronoSync to back up individual folder structures. I've setup a series of backup scripts which only back up specific folders, such as Documents, Dropbox, Downloads, iTunes, Pictures etc. I run each script manually once a week, This updates my Drobo with backup copies of my main folders. On the Drobo I have a Backups folder containing a folder for each of my systems. So all the backups are in one main folder.

I then have a set of further scripts which backup the Drobo's backup folder to various other external drive backups. These external backups are my offsite backups and emergency backups.

I have two external USB drives which are my work computers drives. These drives are normally used on a windows machine but they have a hidden partition on drive which contains my home files stored in an encrypted disk image files.

I also have several standard 3.5" bare drives which I copy the backups to as well. These bare drives drop into the USB Dock mentioned above. I have two main drives which I rotate backing up to. One is stored at home and the other left at work, on a Friday I swap them over and backup to each every other week or so.

Summary of the above

    Main Backup - Drobo (daily / weekly)
    Secondary Backups x2 to External USB Drives (rotated weekly)
    Third level backups x2 to bare 3.5" Drives via the Dock (rotated weekly)
    Full clones to bare 3.5" drives again via the dock. (every 3 months or so, or new OS release)

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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to call your machines mini A and mini B
And your hard drives hd1 and hd2

partition hd1
call partition 1 mini a time machine
call partition 2 mini b clone

Partition hd2
call partition 1 mini b time machine
call partition 2 mini a clone

The reason to do it this way is you can leave
hd1 connected to mini A and let it do it's backups every hour
hd2 connected to mini B and let it do it's backups every hour

Once in a while you can swap the drives and clone each machine

This way you have a recent backup of each machine on both drives as well as an hourly backup.

Your data from each machine is in 3 physical places
If anyone of your drives fail (which will happen eventually)
You always have still have 2 copies of your data
And you never have all your eggs in one basket

Take this one step further
Buy one more drive partition it
Clone both computers and take it offsite
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot, both of you!

I think I'll stick to BB's suggestion.
And buy a 3rd drive, on which I'll have maybe 4 partitions:
*clone mini A
* clone mini B
* copy ext storage HDD (photos & music)
* clone MBP (2007) that I recently bought (very) 2nd hand, but 'only' use when I travel (internet, Office for Mac with files in Dropbox)
Thinking about a HDD with USB3 (for if/when I upgrade one of the minis), FW 400 (for current minis), FW800 (for MBP), maybe this:
http://www.freecom.com/Products/External-Hard-Drives/Desktop-Hard-Drives/Hard-Drive-Quattro
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Cypher
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got fed up with all the different external drives after having problems with a Western Digital and also another one I can't remember the make of now. I did have a Freecom one similar to the one you mentioned and it worked really well for a few years but eventually packed up. The drive was fine and I still use it, the problem was the enclosure.

In the end I bought a NewerTech Voyager Q It wasn't a cheap option but its allowed me to use all of my old 3.5" drives which I've had lying about and which you can pick up cheaply.

Here's a French reseller
http://www.bricomac.com/newertech-voyager-q_67_5688.html
if you want to check it out as an option.
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting option for the (near?) future, especially given that my 2 FW backup HDDs and the USB storage HDD (all Freecom) are all at least 4 yrs old so may (or may not) pack in soon...

Edit: but these docking stations don't seem not to last either...
http://www.amazon.com/NewerTech-Voyager-Interface-Serial-Drives/product-reviews/B0026S7HP0/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NewerTech Voyager Q

We sell those at my store. We call them toasters Smile
Nice if you have a bunch of drives, particularly if they are older.
We sell them for $99 (Canadian).

I've never seen one fail or returned, so people must like them.
Our techs use them in the service department as well.
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Cypher
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

strawbale wrote:
Edit: but these docking stations don't seem not to last either...


Mine is the older model which does look more like a toaster, but I've had it over 5 years and use it daily. No complaints from me other than the high initial price considering it doesn't include a drive.
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know that both of you (and BB's customers!) are happy with them.
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Bandit Bill,

Sorry, just another question before I (re)partition the HHDs:
Any idea whether TM and CCC/SD! would use (roughly) the same amount of disk space in the long run?
(MM1's HD is 38GB of 111GB full, MM2's HD 28/111, both ext HHD are 500GB)
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

strawbale wrote:
@Bandit Bill,

Sorry, just another question before I (re)partition the HHDs:
Any idea whether TM and CCC/SD! would use (roughly) the same amount of disk space in the long run?
(MM1's HD is 38GB of 111GB full, MM2's HD 28/111, both ext HHD are 500GB)


Make your clone partition equal or a little bit larger than the volume you are cloning. Allocate the rest of the drive to time machine.

To take this one step further you could also create a 3 rd partition called data. Ensure the tine machine partition is equal or greater than the internal drives as well. You could then allocate the remainder to the data partition.

Ie.
150GB Clone
150GB TM
200GB Data

I like to do this just to have room on the drive to transfer files back and forth if needed or to archive files that I have created. I like to be able to see The files I have created.
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strawbale
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must have been 'reading' your mind as - the 2nd mini being idle today - I'd just partitioned HD1 165/150/150 for TM/Clone/Data Smile
PS: there's only 465GB available on that HD according to Disk Utility... ?

Bandit Bill wrote:
strawbale wrote:
@Bandit Bill,

Sorry, just another question before I (re)partition the HHDs:
Any idea whether TM and CCC/SD! would use (roughly) the same amount of disk space in the long run?
(MM1's HD is 38GB of 111GB full, MM2's HD 28/111, both ext HHD are 500GB)


Make your clone partition equal or a little bit larger than the volume you are cloning. Allocate the rest of the drive to time machine.

To take this one step further you could also create a 3 rd partition called data. Ensure the tine machine partition is equal or greater than the internal drives as well. You could then allocate the remainder to the data partition.

Ie.
150GB Clone
150GB TM
200GB Data

I like to do this just to have room on the drive to transfer files back and forth if needed or to archive files that I have created. I like to be able to see The files I have created.

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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 500GB drive will never actually be 500GB.

There are plenty of articles you can Google as to why.
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marv777
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: HD Reply with quote

Bandit Bill wrote:
A 500GB drive will never actually be 500GB.

There are plenty of articles you can Google as to why.
What will it be than ? Question
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Bandit Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: HD Reply with quote

marv777 wrote:
Bandit Bill wrote:
A 500GB drive will never actually be 500GB.

There are plenty of articles you can Google as to why.
What will it be than ? Question


Drive manufactures state drive sizes by:
base 10 definition:
1 GB = 1000000000 bytes

Computers are binary
They see:
1 GB = 1073741824 bytes


So whatever drive size is stated on the box divide roughly by 1.07
and that will be actual usable space. (7% less than what you would think)

eq. 500GB/1.07=467GB

100GB 93.1GB
320GB 297.95GB
500GB 465.55GB
640GB 595.90GB
750GB 698.32GB
1TB 931.10GB
1.5TB 1396.65GB

Here's a wiki link if you want more detail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte
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