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HD4000 Video
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skyking20
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: HD4000 Video Reply with quote

Iwas looking forward to the updated Mac Mini and was ready to buy. But the video upgrade is disappointing. Now I play all the fast action games on my Xbox 360 and PS3. So I do not need a high end graphic card in my Mac.

But I do play some very detail games like Trainz and the Battlefront series. Plus I like to watch downloaded action movies in HD. Can the HD4000 handle that well? Or should I move to an iMac with the Nvidia video?

thanks.
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Badger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak for the more intense games like Battlefront, but most of the games that I'm playing are doing nicely. HD movies and video aren't going to be a problem at all. It handles them like butter.
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jibberjabber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a lot of not-quite-latest games* on my 2011 Mini with discrete 6630 video, HDMI cable to a big screen TV, and it works well at medium or high settings, depending on the game, and either 1080 or 720p.

They do NOT work well on the HD3000 in my MacBook, and after reading the 3D and gaming benchmarks for the HD4000 (note: NOT the overall video performance, which is all about desktop video and movies and such), I see they would not work well in the new model either.

So I ordered a second 2011/6630 video model (Apple refurb page, $500!) for the guest room instead of the new 2012 model. It's scoring quite a bit higher on 3D/gaming tests, and I hate the idea of downgrading just to get USB and a faster processor, especially when nothing I do (including games) is processor limited. Last year's are fast enough.

(* Just Cause 2, Bioshock(s), Portal(s), Batman Arkham City, Skyrim, Borderlands(es), Dishonored... all great performance.)
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jibberjabber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS: The 2011 with 6630 graphics reappears on the Apple refurb page every day or two and vanishes within minutes, so I'm assuming others have come to the same conclusion too, and are pouncing. If you want one, Refresh often. :)
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infinitespecter
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: HD4000 Video Reply with quote

skyking20 wrote:
Iwas looking forward to the updated Mac Mini and was ready to buy. But the video upgrade is disappointing. Now I play all the fast action games on my Xbox 360 and PS3. So I do not need a high end graphic card in my Mac.

But I do play some very detail games like Trainz and the Battlefront series. Plus I like to watch downloaded action movies in HD. Can the HD4000 handle that well? Or should I move to an iMac with the Nvidia video?

thanks.


I was highly disappointed with the graphics card downgrade. What I did was forgo the USB 3 and quad core processors (most games don't benefit from quad cores anyway) and order a 2011 Mini with the Radeon. Playing Civilization 5 and X-Plane and watching it struggle at times has reinforced my decision.

BTW, no need to watch the refresh page like a hawk... let refurb-tracker do it for you. You just select which models you want to be alerted to and it sends you an email when they become available on the Apple store.
www.refurb-tracker.com
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marv777
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: HD4000 Video Reply with quote

skyking20 wrote:
Iwas looking forward to the updated Mac Mini and was ready to buy. But the video upgrade is disappointing. Now I play all the fast action games on my Xbox 360 and PS3. So I do not need a high end graphic card in my Mac.

But I do play some very detail games like Trainz and the Battlefront series. Plus I like to watch downloaded action movies in HD. Can the HD4000 handle that well? Or should I move to an iMac with the Nvidia video?

thanks.
Why is the games so important in your life? I would never ever buy a computer for just games. To me this is a waste.
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b0bb
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: HD4000 Video Reply with quote

skyking20 wrote:
Iwas looking forward to the updated Mac Mini and was ready to buy. But the video upgrade is disappointing. Now I play all the fast action games on my Xbox 360 and PS3. So I do not need a high end graphic card in my Mac.

But I do play some very detail games like Trainz and the Battlefront series. Plus I like to watch downloaded action movies in HD. Can the HD4000 handle that well? Or should I move to an iMac with the Nvidia video?

thanks.


You would be better served with the more powerful GPUs in the iMac.

Here is a review of the chipmunk (aka laptop) end of the gaming GPU world.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmarked.73567.0.html

Integrated GPUs on the same piece of silicon as the CPU is a nasty compromise, the increased heat production from the GPU restricting the CPU from going into full turbo mode

Here is a paper from Intel discussing the problem.
http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/whitepaper/323324.pdf
Ref fig 1 page 7 onwards. It shows how the load on IGP affects the CPU performance.

I took this from a wider discussion from this discussion thread
http://superuser.com/questions/420925/what-happens-when-you-add-a-graphics-card-to-a-i7-with-build-in-graphics-e-g-h
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KiMac
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm coming to the 2012 Mac mini from a 2009 iMac. I didn't go with another iMac because you can't access anything on the new 21.5" model. If something breaks, you are screwed. I've decided to go with a TB display and Mac minis going forward. Especially with their performance now. I don't think the graphics represent the entire picture.
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idave
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing fairly well with Minecraft, so no complaints so far.
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get_up
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjabber wrote:
I play a lot of not-quite-latest games* on my 2011 Mini with discrete 6630 video, HDMI cable to a big screen TV, and it works well at medium or high settings, depending on the game, and either 1080 or 720p.

They do NOT work well on the HD3000 in my MacBook, and after reading the 3D and gaming benchmarks for the HD4000 (note: NOT the overall video performance, which is all about desktop video and movies and such), I see they would not work well in the new model either.

So I ordered a second 2011/6630 video model (Apple refurb page, $500!) for the guest room instead of the new 2012 model. It's scoring quite a bit higher on 3D/gaming tests, and I hate the idea of downgrading just to get USB and a faster processor, especially when nothing I do (including games) is processor limited. Last year's are fast enough.

(* Just Cause 2, Bioshock(s), Portal(s), Batman Arkham City, Skyrim, Borderlands(es), Dishonored... all great performance.)

Hi everyone ,
Come on guys , hd 4000 shouldnt be so bad , its similiar with 6630 .. yeah its dissapointing why they didnt upgrade it up from amd hd 6630 but because of this u shouldnt buy old mini s at the same price ..
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devo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't get held up on the graphics either. I think this generation of the Mac mini is the best ever. From the quad-core processors, to the totally up to date I/O on the back. They also didn't stiff the Mac mini from getting the Fusion drive. So, what's not to like? It's basically a 15" MacBook Pro with Retina display without the switchable graphics.
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b0bb
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really liked the option of the 2.6G quads on the 2012 until I saw the HD4000.

The HD4000 design limits how fast the quads can go, as it reduces the thermal overhead (limits the turbo frequency) and reduces cache and memory bandwidth to the CPU.

I went out and bought a 2011 dual core 2.7G i7 instead.

I would really like to see how fast the quads can go with the HD4000 out of the way, if its close cousins, the Xeon E3 is any indication, it would be in the 3.6Ghz range.
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Texark
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

b0bb wrote:
The HD4000 design limits how fast the quads can go, as it reduces the thermal overhead (limits the turbo frequency) and reduces cache and memory bandwidth to the CPU.

But that's more with the Ivy Bridge ULV chips, not the regular Ivy Bridge mobile chips used in the MacBook Pro and Mac mini. Right?
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b0bb
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texark wrote:

But that's more with the Ivy Bridge ULV chips, not the regular Ivy Bridge mobile chips used in the MacBook Pro and Mac mini. Right?


It is across the entire cpu range (ULV, Mobile, Desktop, E3 server), as far as I can tell, I looked for info to say the contrary but have not found any.

I don't think they do quads on the ULV devices, for this reason. Have you seen any ULVs with the HD4000 ?

I bought the dual core as I did not see that there was enough headroom in the context of the Mini for the quads to really stretch their legs. If Apple used an external GPU it would have changed things quite a bit.
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Fleeeee7
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little off topic, but how much system memory does the HD 4000 consume?
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