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HIS Radeon HD4670 AGP + Apple DVI to S-video adapter

 
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KingBongo
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: HIS Radeon HD4670 AGP + Apple DVI to S-video adapter Reply with quote

I don't know if this belongs here or not, because it has nothing to do with Mac Mini, but with an old aging PC. However, it is about trouble I am having with Apple Hardware, so maybe somebody can still help or has some experience.

Recently I bought this AGP card http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-448.shtml and this adapter (DVI to Video) http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9...co=MTA4NDU1Mjc .

The card itself has no S-Video output, but people told me that if I were able to find an adapter from DVI to S-Video it would probably work.

However, I get no picture on my old CRT TV. The TV detects some signal because it changes mode, but no picture is to be seen. In the Monitor Preferences the Adapter+TV combo is detected as "Monitor: Apple Computer Inc 10" ". I have tried playing around with the resolution and the frequency (56Hz and 60Hz) in all possible configurations (only a few) but no luck. What can I do? Help!

My setup is the following:

Pentium 4 HT, 3.06GHz, 2GB DDR RAM
Ubuntu Lucid Lynx
Kernel 2.6.35rc3-maverick
PPA-xorg-edgers repos added
updated and upgraded

I have also tried other Kernels (.32, .33, .34) but still no picture.
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DVI is Digital Video and S-Video is Analog.
Using an adapter that simply changes the
plug from DVI to S-Video isn't gong to work
because your old TV is Analog. You would
need to change the SIGNAL from Digital to
Analog. Sorry, can't help you with how to
do that. Possibly someone makes an inexpensive
adapter that does. Not sure.

Good luck!!!

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16GB RAM, Samsung 512GB SSD
MacBook AIR 11 Inch
Mac mini, Model 1.1, 2.33 GHz C2D Proc
20" iMac G4 PPC


Last edited by billb on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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saul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the manual it shows that you need to use the 7 pin S-Video connector. Since that is not included on the card you have there might not be any easy solution. You can try the VGA (analog 15pin) output so use http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040113&p_id=2509&seq=1&format=2


Or use something like this if the card doesn't support anything else:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=4724&seq=1&format=2
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saul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also - you did change the screen resolution to 480i ? It needs to be 60Hz interlaced for an old TV to display.
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KingBongo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your replies!

billb:
I am afraid your statement is not 100% correct. As long as it is a DVI-I output connector it actually includes the analog VGA signal as well. The standard documentation for DVI states that it has to. How else can you connect a VGA monitor to a DVI output by using a simple adapter? As far as I know, it always works. Also, I carefully examined the DVI output from the card before buying the Apple adapter. It is DVI-I. Third thing, the Apple adapter can be connected to the card, which would be impossible if the DVI output wouldn't include the analog signal because of pin incompatibility. But thank you anyway for your reply Smile

saul:
Thank you. I believe the Apple adapter simply uses the VGA signal from the DVI as I mentioned above and converts it to S-Video (and RCA). I don't know how advanced it is, but I believe only simple analog circuitry is used. Question is what exactly it does. I see two possibilities:

1. Either it is comparable in complexity to the cable in your first link, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040113&p_id=2509&seq=1&format=2 . The way I understand it those rarely work if not both the card and driver support it. If it is so, then that would explain why it isn't working for me.

2. It is comparable in complexity to the second unit you linked to, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=4724&seq=1&format=2 , but somewhat simplified. Due to the size (and price) of Apples unit I doubt it. However, the way I understand it these more advanced units work in many cases.

So let's suppose Apples unit is something simple. I can understand some specialized driver might be needed because the VGA signal possibly has to be "tweaked" before picking out the S-Video signal. What I cannot understand is some claims I read that the card (hardware) has to support it as well! Why should it? Does somebody have an explanation? To conclude, I believe only a driver is needed to handle Apples unit. If that is so, please write one for me Wink

Yes, I tried all possible resolutions, 640x480 60Hz is one of them. I don't know if the signal is interlaced though.

Any more ideas? I really would like to get this one working!
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: HIS Radeon HD4670 AGP + Apple DVI to S-video adapter Reply with quote

KingBongo wrote:
I
Recently bought this AGP card http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-448.shtml and this adapter (DVI to Video) http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9...co=MTA4NDU1Mjc .

The card itself has no S-Video output, but people told me that if I were able to find an adapter from DVI to S-Video it would probably work.
e.
That card looks like its "Dual-Link DVI" as well as VGA.
It's my understanding that some Dual-Link DVI's
don't carry a VGA signal. Most do.
Since your card has VGA, why not use that instead?
Might be simpler.

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KingBongo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billb:
Thank you! Yes, but if the manufacturer wants to include Dual-Link DVI but not an analog signal (VGA) why not use a DVI-D output instead of DVI-I? Check Wikipedia for a comparison. Using a DVI-I connector and not include VGA would violate the standard, wouldn't it? I am not sure if anyone would care, but it could even be illegal doing so.

The reason I am not using the VGA output for S-Video is that people told me that the Apple adapter would probably work. The adapter also is somewhat cheaper than an advanced VGA to Video converter. Bad mistake Wink
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: DVI Issues Reply with quote

I must be missing something.
I clicked the link you gave for the Card you
purchased and no were on that site does it
indicate "DVI-I". It shows "DVI". Their are
three or four DVI standards. DVI-I, DVI-D,
Dual-Link DVI come to mind. If you look
directly below the Round Purple DVI Icon
on that site the spec's state, under the
Specifications Tab, "Dual-Link DVI".
If you check out Wikipedia, somewhere
on their it should confirm that Dual-Link DVI
doesn't always carry the VGA signal.
Since your card has both a Dual-Link DVI
and a VGA I'll go out on a limb and say
that it doesn't carry the VGA signal on both
the Dual-Link DVI and VGA but just the VGA.

I could easily be wrong
and the card could support VGA
on both connections.

Monday try sending the card maker
an eMail and find out for sure
so you don't buy cables and
connectors you don't need.

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MacBook AIR 11 Inch
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: DVI-I Reply with quote

I downloaded the Instruction Manuel
and it does state "DVI-I".

I'm lazier than you. I would eMail their Tech. Dept. monday.

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saul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thinking is that Apple's adapter somehow lets the computer sense that it is there and then the OS knows to offer 480i.

The 640x480 resolution is normally progressive (480p) and most CRT TVs will not accept the signal. I had a 19" LCD that wouldn't either.

Try the utility at http://www.madrau.com/indexSRX4.html to force 480i and see what happens.
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KingBongo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billb:
I did not even check the manual or anything like that. I just compared the output from the card with the pictures here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface , and then concluded it must be DVI-I. Nice to see you confirm it too based on the manual Smile

saul:
THANK YOU! I will check on the 480p and 480i thing to see what the computer actually sends out Smile Maybe I can fix that! I know something is sent to the TV since it changes mode (screen all blue) but not what. Thank you again! Best idea yet.

EDIT: Yes, I will be using this on Linux (Ubuntu). But don't be mad, my first computer is a Mac Razz Linux (my opinion) often gives you more flexibility, but also muuuuuuuuuuuch more headaches. My Mac is like a machine, not a hick-up ever. Well, almost never Smile


Last edited by KingBongo on Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Ubuntu Reply with quote

saul wrote:
My thinking is that Apple's adapter somehow lets the computer sense that it is there and then the OS knows to offer 480i.

The 640x480 resolution is normally progressive (480p) and most CRT TVs will not accept the signal. I had a 19" LCD that wouldn't either.

Try the utility at http://www.madrau.com/indexSRX4.html to force 480i and see what happens.
He's using the Card with Ubuntu not Mac or Windows. Isn't SwitchResX just for a Mac?
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saul
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Ubuntu Reply with quote

billb wrote:
He's using the Card with Ubuntu not Mac or Windows. Isn't SwitchResX just for a Mac?


Sorry, I missed that one. SwitchResX is just for Macs. With Linux it is more likely a line in an ini file somewhere.
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billb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBongo wrote:
Yes, I will be using this on Linux (Ubuntu). But don't be mad, my first computer is a Mac Razz Linux (my opinion) often gives you more flexibility, but also muuuuuuuuuuuch more headaches. My Mac is like a machine, not a hick-up ever. Well, almost never Smile
We like ALL OS's here. Just some more than others.
Most of us use windows and many enjoy a Linux Disrto or two.

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KingBongo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billb:
Well. You are more forgiving than I am. I try to avoid using Windows as much as I can Smile I haven't touched it for months.
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