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Obama or McCain?
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Obama or McCain?
Obama
72%
 72%  [ 36 ]
McCain
28%
 28%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 50

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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:
JohnnyBoy wrote:
I thought that Obama was a really charismatic guy, until I learned that he favours bigger government.


I'm whiffing a little bit of conflation here...JB.. Wink

Obama is still a charismatic guy. His innate quality (of charisma) is not related to your having learned he is in favor big government.

Aw, you know what I meant! His charisma scored 'plus points' in my book, but they were reduced when I discovered that he favoured bigger government. How's that? Wink Smile

Aquafire wrote:
That said, like yourself; I must agree.

I am deeply suspicious of Big governments.

Most especially self abrogating socialist style Central Planning systems.

In the UK, our current Prime Minister's poll rating has dropped through the floor. One BBC journalist was told off-the-record that Gordon Brown's own ministers had urged him to "drop the 10-year tractor plans".

ClunkClunk wrote:
Unfortunately 'bigger government' is a fact of all modern candidates. Some claim to not be, via traditional party associations or just personal statements but when they're elected, they rarely seem to follow through on that.

Yeah, it's the same old promises: smaller government, lower taxes, educational reform, healthcare reform, blah, blah, blah...
And every time, government gets bigger, taxes go up, the education system is meddled with and disrupted by ignorant, clumsy nitwits, and ditto for the healthcare system...

Returning to the opening post: Perhaps there's one thing that the Democrats can console themselves with if McCain wins the presidency - the Republicans won't be able to blame the Democrats for the shitty mess that Bush leaves behind, and that they will have to clear up...
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ghostdawg
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that we do know who's running...the natives are grumbling...

Oh well.
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Bobaloo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="JohnnyBoy"][quote="Aquafire"]
JohnnyBoy wrote:




Returning to the opening post: Perhaps there's one thing that the Democrats can console themselves with if McCain wins the presidency - the Republicans won't be able to blame the Democrats for the shitty mess that Bush leaves behind, and that they will have to clear up...


JohnnyBoy,

you'd like to think that but I am sure the republicans will find a way to blame Bill Clinton. The conservatives have blamed him for everything when he was in office and while Bush has been.
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ESUNintel
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobaloo wrote:


JohnnyBoy,

you'd like to think that but I am sure the republicans will find a way to blame Bill Clinton. The conservatives have blamed him for everything when he was in office and while Bush has been.


I'm a republican
...and I blame Bush for being an idiot and for all the stupid stuff he's done (sorry super conservatives who love Bush no matter what, I still like him a bit too). I did like Clinton, and think he's been one of the best modern day presidents.

Regardless who may win, if it's Obama (I hope not), there will be major change (considering all he's saying isn't lies), and if McCain wins he MUST bring about change to help out the party people like Bush have brought to the lowest levels in history.
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hackersmovie
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESUNintel wrote:
...and if McCain wins he MUST bring about change...


Really? Why? Don't all Presidents promise change yet produce very little? IMHO, Cain is a Bush clone, no thank you.
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phaedrus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't believe that people would vote for mccain for anything other than party allegiance... actually, i guess racism will factor in a large number of votes, but probably not enough to keep obama out of the whitehouse.
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ghostdawg
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't quite understand since Hillary is out, why some of her supports are deciding to vote for McCain. If the're democrats, why are they switching sides?
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostdawg wrote:
If the're democrats, why are they switching sides?

Spite?
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:
ghostdawg wrote:
If they're democrats, why are they switching sides?

Spite?


As usual, your on the nail JB...on the nail...Cool

Her bowing out address was a load of bitter sweet waffle, suffused with under~currents of anger..

And she didn't really push hard on the support Obama issue.

She could have done d a hell of a lot more... by reminding her supporters that their vote was not just a vote for her, but more importantly, a vote for the Democrat party.

She could have been more of a stateswoman and reminded them of that while their loyalty was admirable; they owed a greater allegiance to the American people. And if they wanted change, then they would have to add their full and unstinting support to Senator Obama's campaign.

But as I have stated earlier, her campaign was as negative as it was Elitistically (WASP) Feminist..& Racist.

By pushing the women's angle, she managed to drive a gender wedge into her campaign. Not surprisingly, her 1970's and 80's style feminist agenda, fell on many deaf ears, so much so, that she only garnered about half the Democrat female vote. And calling the legions of male Democrat supporters who voted Obama, "misogynists", really punched a hole in her electoral boat.

Anyway...I am glad she is gone...

And I make no bones about my distaste for her brand of 'divide and rule' politics..


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mdgm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:

By pushing the women's angle, she managed to drive a gender wedge into her campaign.


I don't like that either. But I don't like Barack's use of the colour of his skin in his campaign. The best man for the job should be elected President. It doesn't matter what colour their skin is or where they are from.
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JohnnyBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdgm wrote:
I don't like that either. But I don't like Barack's use of the colour of his skin in his campaign. The best man for the job should be elected President. It doesn't matter what colour their skin is or where they are from.

I don't know how it is in Oz, mdgm, but in the UK, Michael Howard (former head of the Conservative Party) was never labelled as "the Jewish candidate" - any UK media agency would have been dragged over the coals for saying such a thing.

So I have been quite surprised by how quickly and unapologetically the US media labelled Obama as "the black candidate".
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Aquafire
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyBoy wrote:

I don't know how it is in Oz, mdgm, but in the UK, Michael Howard (former head of the Conservative Party) was never labelled as "the Jewish candidate" - any UK media agency would have been dragged over the coals for saying such a thing.


Not only that...it wouldn't have been Kosher... Wink

hehehe

Aqua

Ps :

re Obama being labelled a "Black candidate"..

Funny that...considering that his mother S Ann Sotero is White..

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524,00.html

So why not call him a 'White Candidate'..?

It would be just as legitimate.

But seriously, who cares..

Does anyone seriously think that the colour of Tiger Woods skin makes him a great golfer...?

So why should skin colour matter ... ?

( It's a rhetorical question)
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Bobaloo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:
JohnnyBoy wrote:

I don't know how it is in Oz, mdgm, but in the UK, Michael Howard (former head of the Conservative Party) was never labelled as "the Jewish candidate" - any UK media agency would have been dragged over the coals for saying such a thing.


Not only that...it wouldn't have been Kosher... Wink


Ps :

re Obama being labelled a "Black candidate"..

Funny that...considering that his mother S Ann Sotero is White..

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524,00.html




( It's a rhetorical question)


I'm back again, (Aqua, call me a flip-flopper, but hey..)

Skin color should not matter but it is hard for it not to. I know you stated Obama's mother is white, but the African American community sees him as a black candidate, so that is how it will be.

As for JohnnyBoy's quote about the Jewish candidate, yes, that will happen. A conservative talk show host here did a man on the street spot when Joseph Lieberman was on the ticket for vice-president. He asked this individual who the vice presidential candidates were and his answer was the Jewish guy and Dick Cheney.

Race should not factor in to ones decision to vote for a candidate but it will, I am sure. I am a former NYC resident and I voted for David Dinkins when he ran for governor the first time and I did not have to think twice. I admit I did not vote for him when he ran for reelection but that was based on the job he did only.

As a lifelong Democrat who is tired of what has taken place in the last 8 years, I am so glad that King George II will be out of a job come January 20, 2009.
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Bobaloo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquafire wrote:
JohnnyBoy wrote:

I don't know how it is in Oz, mdgm, but in the UK, Michael Howard (former head of the Conservative Party) was never labelled as "the Jewish candidate" - any UK media agency would have been dragged over the coals for saying such a thing.


Not only that...it wouldn't have been Kosher... Wink


Ps :

re Obama being labelled a "Black candidate"..

Funny that...considering that his mother S Ann Sotero is White..

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524,00.html




( It's a rhetorical question)


I'm back again, (Aqua, call me a flip-flopper, but hey..)

Skin color should not matter but it is hard for it not to. I know you stated Obama's mother is white, but the African American community sees him as a black candidate, so that is how it will be.

As for JohnnyBoy's quote about the Jewish candidate, yes, that will happen. A conservative talk show host here did a man on the street spot when Joseph Lieberman was on the ticket for vice-president. He asked this individual who the vice presidential candidates were and his answer was the Jewish guy and Dick Cheney.

Race should not factor in to ones decision to vote for a candidate but it will, I am sure. I am a former NYC resident and I voted for David Dinkins when he ran for governor the first time and I did not have to think twice. I admit I did not vote for him when he ran for reelection but that was based on the job he did only.

As a lifelong Democrat who is tired of what has taken place in the last 8 years, I am so glad that King George II will be out of a job come January 20, 2009.
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phaedrus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostdawg wrote:
I don't quite understand since Hillary is out, why some of her supports are deciding to vote for McCain.


Well, you'd have to be quite daft to vote for either Hillary or McCain... so I guess it's just a shift of the idiot vote from one idiot to another.
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