123Macmini.com
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   GalleryPhoto Gallery   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Windows Vista
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    123Macmini.com - Forums Forum Index -> Off Topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
greg
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 613

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

homerjatmoes wrote:
It looks like XP to me. As for ripping someone off (Konfabulator) they all do it and claim innovation.


I would say that Microsoft has rarely ever been an innovator but most often an assimilator. It is certainly easier to play it safe and let others do the R&D and initial marketing of an idea and then buy them up or just outright copy them. Unfortunately, this is common with other large vendors as well. When you stop and think about it, there is very little REAL innovation in IT these days. There are expected incremental improvements in the overall capability of systems but much of what we see these days is technology that has been rehashed, renamed or reworked and presented as something new and cutting edge. Unfortunately that is often not the case. Its a lot easier to repackage or rename a technology and market it than it is to actually come up with something new and useful.
_________________
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB RAM
miniStack 500GB
Dell 1905FP
Logitech Wave Cordless Desktop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Susurrus
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Providence, Rhode Island

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think Vista will be a griploads safer than XP, though I'm sure there will be malware for it. I have a little more faith than e3mw, I guess. I'm sure Microsoft won't get *nix security in one generation, I'm sure. There's too much of an issue with compatibility, ease of use, yadda, yadda, yadda...You guys forget that what Windows needs are major changes. It's hard to make those and keep your marketshare when people demand backwards compatibility.

I think Microsoft will succeed a ton in Vista on their security measures. I do think that Microsoft will not succeed until they actually change the way they make software; obviously their current model isn't working, with Vista being delayed, what, 2 years, and having most of its dramatic features cut off.

Microsoft needs to stop playing it safe. The greatest thing that OS and OS X can do to Microsoft is provide the incentive for innovation.

You can all hate on Windows as much as you want (I'm not a huge fan either), but the fact of the matter is that all we will see is dramatic improvement from Microsoft that's good for all of us, and that isn't a bad thing. You can't compete if you only assimilate.
_________________
Computer Engineer
Junior, Brown University
15" NC8430 HP Laptop
1.42Ghz PPC Mac Mini, 1Gb RAM, 1st Gen
40GB G4 iPod
2GB Black iPod Nano
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
WC3_Gamer
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Left the forums, goodbye to all

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windows isn't an insecure OS, well, XP is, but i run Windows 2000 Pro, it's ugly, but I like it and haven't had any problems with it.

P.S. I used to use 98, ugh!

Very Happy
_________________
Gone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greg
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 613

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WC3_Gamer wrote:
Windows isn't an insecure OS, well, XP is, but i run Windows 2000 Pro, it's ugly, but I like it and haven't had any problems with it.


This may be true from your personal experience but certainly NOT true from a corporate one. Over the years my organization has poured more money and time into Windows related security issues than all of our other enterprise computing platforms combined (including UNIX, Linux, i5/OS, z/OS) and it is still a constant source of pain and frustration. And the same is true when only considering servers and not even accounting for the plethora of workstations.

Susurrus is right in that part of the problem is that Microsoft really needs to make some core changes. Microsoft has become somewhat of a behemoth and is obviously finding it harder to make such course corrections. Unfortunately what we get instead of these fundamental changes in their OS is a new glittery front-end with a few more whiz-bang accessories. Kind of like adding more cupholders in a new car instead of actually improving the power-train.
_________________
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB RAM
miniStack 500GB
Dell 1905FP
Logitech Wave Cordless Desktop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg wrote:
Kind of like adding more cupholders in a new car instead of actually improving the power-train.


Duh... as long as it accommodates a Double Gulp, the average moron will be happy.

I sure hope for the sake of the rest of the world that Vista is a success. I'd like to see the computer industry evolve. Other than the Mac; computers haven't offered anything innovative for over 10 years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
greg
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 613

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no grudges against any software vendor (including MS). Oh wait... except for the one that bought out the software company I used to engineer for. They were a prime example of a company whose strategy had become existence through assimilation of technology and more importantly maintenance revenue from an existing clientel base. But I digress...

As I said, I've no grudges (mostly). So, ten years from now I really don't care whether any of todays major players remain as dominating OS vendors. What I DO care about is that my life has been made easier by their products and not needlessly more complex in trying to maintain their basic integrity. * simplify *
_________________
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB RAM
miniStack 500GB
Dell 1905FP
Logitech Wave Cordless Desktop
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KISS is good. But there is always those who want more and more. A good example of being too simple were those internet only boxes. They never really sold.

We'll probably see internet features built into TV's and satellite tuners soon enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aristobrat
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Va Beach, VA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3mw wrote:
I'm just ready for something at least a bit more secure than XP; however long it lasts.

IMO, the fact that out-of-the-box, even a user with admin access will be queried for their password before they (or any application/malware) can make a system change is a HUGGGEEEEEEEEEEE improvement over how XP works, where an out-of-the-box install results with the main user of the box running with unchecked admin access 24x7.

From what I've seen of my non-tech friends and family, the user is almost always the weakest link in security. I'm glad that Microsoft is following Apple in realizing that you can tell users not to use admin accounts as their main account, but they're still going to do it anyway, so something else needs to be done to help with security.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
WC3_Gamer
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Left the forums, goodbye to all

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something innovative in 10 years, comon man you've definitely heard of hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is a huge advance in computer technology.
I hope the MacIntels have HT chips. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
_________________
Gone.


Last edited by WC3_Gamer on Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WC3_Gamer wrote:
Something innovative in 10 years, comon man. Hyperthreading? Do you know what hyperthreading is? You can run as many programs as you want without any sacrifice of power. Hyperthreading is a huge advance in computer technology.


I'll amend my comment to "interesting to the common man".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandit Bill
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 5985
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aristobrat wrote:
e3mw wrote:
I'm just ready for something at least a bit more secure than XP; however long it lasts.

IMO, the fact that out-of-the-box, even a user with admin access will be queried for their password before they (or any application/malware) can make a system change is a HUGGGEEEEEEEEEEE improvement over how XP works, where an out-of-the-box install results with the main user of the box running with unchecked admin access 24x7.

From what I've seen of my non-tech friends and family, the user is almost always the weakest link in security. I'm glad that Microsoft is following Apple in realizing that you can tell users not to use admin accounts as their main account, but they're still going to do it anyway, so something else needs to be done to help with security.


Again, the user is the weakest link in security. Windows can already be well secured, but you can't leave it to the user to do so. Most people using windows right now are running with admin privileges and they don't even know it. They open emails with viruses etc.

Asking permissions is a good step, but there are a lot of ignorant people out there that will click "ok" and still get the malware and viruses etc.

I'm sure MicroSoft will be focusing 95% of their efforts on security. They had better. The other 5% is easy; they just have to copy the cool features built into OSX Smile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WC3_Gamer
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Left the forums, goodbye to all

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not switching to Macs entirely because of security, I'm mostly switching because of the stability of the OS, I hate having stuff freeze on me. Especially since I lost a few essays in Word due to it.
_________________
Gone.


Last edited by WC3_Gamer on Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
devo
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: Dunwoody, GA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WC3_Gamer wrote:
Especially since I lost a few essays in Word do to it.


I hate when that happens! Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Susurrus
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Providence, Rhode Island

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WC3_Gamer wrote:
Something innovative in 10 years, comon man you've definitely heard of hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is a huge advance in computer technology.
I hope the MacIntels have HT chips. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Hyperthreading is actually a horrible "advancement" in technology. It's not really an advancement at all, which is why I put it in quotes. Hyperthreading is a technology that attempts to make up for the failings of a chip design with a large instruction queue (That's not the right term, but I can't remember the right one. I'll edit when I do). Because the Netburst architecture that Intel has has so many steps in executing an instruction and such horrible branch prediction, it loses a lot of time making up for missed branch guesses. To overcome this, the chip pretends it's two, so it already has another instruction queued up and ready to go for the "2nd" core. Because it's all lined up for the second chip, that doesn't exist, to use, the real and only one can get access to it quite quickly and easily and it helps make up for time that would otherwise be lost queuing up the next instruction. In other words, Hyperthreading just keeps all parts of the chip working at all times.

As for Windows, I really do think it gets way more flack than it deserves. Sure it's insecure and Microsoft has become complacent, but whenever the try to fix something everyone's always like "Ohhhh! Someone already did that!". Well, when you're that far behind, no sh**. You have to catch up to the pack before you can pass it. People say they add a search in IE and it makes it look like Firefox. Well, it makes it look like every browser out there now, really. Windows is adding "Spotlight" search techniques just like Tiger. Yeah, well, considering the importance that searching is taking in our lives (Anyone know Google), why does this suprise anyone so that they need to say "Oh, it's like OS X"?

Windows sucks in a lot of ways, we all know that. Personally, I've had problems with it. But they're working to improve that, and all that can mean is that Microsoft is heading towards innovating and that will help Average Joe who is too entrenched in mistruths about OS X to switch. Linux isn't ready for Average Joe, even with Lindows or Linspire or whatever. Very close, but not quite.

So, that's my rant. I think I said something in there, but you can decide that.
_________________
Computer Engineer
Junior, Brown University
15" NC8430 HP Laptop
1.42Ghz PPC Mac Mini, 1Gb RAM, 1st Gen
40GB G4 iPod
2GB Black iPod Nano
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aristobrat
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 188
Location: Va Beach, VA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susurrus wrote:
Windows sucks in a lot of ways, we all know that. Personally, I've had problems with it. But they're working to improve that, and all that can mean is that Microsoft is heading towards innovating and that will help Average Joe who is too entrenched in mistruths about OS X to switch.

Maybe that's it... My recent disillusionment with Windows (and the next version of Windows) is because my heads no longer in the sand about the mistruths of OS X...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    123Macmini.com - Forums Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



      

Shop:  Apple Store  |  Refurbished Macs  |  Refurbished iPads  |  MacConnection  |  Mac Mini Vault  |  Other World Computing

MK 1 Studio Mac mini Racks  |  Crucial Mac Memory  |  Top Free Mac Apps  |  Top Paid Mac Apps



123Macmini.com is an independent publication and has not been authorized, sponsored, or approved by Apple Computer, Inc.
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owners.
Copyright © 2011 123Macmini.com. All Rights Reserved.